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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Rules Q&A Harder Saving Throws and Stackable Temp HP......
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Flag Aldath December 12, 2012 4:47 PM PST
Well guys, I just noticed something... Save throws are quite the game breakers. I mean, most of the best encounter and dialies are based on Save Throws: They cause important changes in the pace of battle that can turn the tides, but they can quickly be gone and wasted by a save throw. Same with players, it ussualy makes the game far easier than it should be. My bet is, should I somehow add higher or lower difficulties to save throws deppending on the situation? Say, Hunter's bear trap could be a life saver if it didn't ended so easily...

Then we have Temp. HP. Yeah, they could make the battle quite diferent stacked, but I mean... many powers give Temp. Hp based on secondary status modifiers, say, a Wildblood Warden with Strength of Earth could be earing only ONE misserable Temp HP., which is in fact  laughable. I mean, wouldn't it be better if Temporal HP. Actually could stack such as with the Vigorous Fighter? It's not like the status bonuses would greatly grow over time either...

Lastly, should I make Dialy Item Powers, Encunter Item Powers Intsead? I mean, they're not game breaking :/ 
Flag LordOfWeasels December 12, 2012 5:00 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

Save throws are quite the game breakers.




No, they aren't.

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

I mean, wouldn't it be better if Temporal HP. Actually could stack such as with the Vigorous Fighter?




No.  That's a bad idea, and that IS gamebreaking.

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

Lastly, should I make Dialy Item Powers, Encunter Item Powers Intsead? I mean, they're not game breaking :/ 




No.  And they can be.

Flag Aldath December 12, 2012 6:08 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 5:00PM, LordOfWeasels wrote:

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

Save throws are quite the game breakers.




No, they aren't.

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

I mean, wouldn't it be better if Temporal HP. Actually could stack such as with the Vigorous Fighter?




No.  That's a bad idea, and that IS gamebreaking.

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

Lastly, should I make Dialy Item Powers, Encunter Item Powers Intsead? I mean, they're not game breaking :/ 




No.  And they can be.




So, would you consider the Vigorous Fighter a broken build?

Flag LordOfWeasels December 12, 2012 6:09 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 6:08PM, Aldath wrote:


So, would you consider the Vigorous Fighter a broken build?




First:  "Battlerager", not "Vigorous".

Second:  It doesn't stack temp HP.  It *used to*, but that was *changed*.  Because it was broken.

Flag waxwingslain December 13, 2012 5:55 AM PST
Here's a simple way to understand why saves aren't broken even though they are easy to make:

A "save ends" power will probably affect its victim once. (55% chance that they save at the end of their turn after suffering its effects).

Power effects are balanced by this assumption. It is supposed to affect the target once.

There is a decent chance (45%) it will affect the target twice. This is quite powerful, and it means the power-user has "beaten the odds" and gotten an extra round of effects in. Bravo!

The chance it will affect the target three times, or four times, or more decreases drastically after that. Anything after the first or second round is a huge benefit for the power-user.

Don't think of it as old 2E, where powers were supposed to last eight or ten or a dozen rounds. These powers are balanced for just one round, possibly two.
Flag SadClownIsSad December 13, 2012 6:37 AM PST
The part where I'm also leaning towards an adjustment to saving throws is when a power has save ends on a hit and until the end of your next turn on a miss.

Now, depending on initiative order, and whether the enemy is an elite or solo, a miss could be preferable more often than not.


Otherwise, I pretty much agree that the design intent seems to have save ends powers  affect the target for 1 round, 2 at most.
While it can seem rather short, I think it balances things out when you are on the receiving side.

On THP stacking... really depends if you're trying to optimize THP generation, or if you have the occasional power that generates some.
The former can really unbalance an encounter while in the later case, it probably doesn't matter and could stack.

On Daily item powers as encounter powers.... proceed with care is my only advice. Again, it propbably doesn't matter with benign items but could really unbalance things when abused.



Flag mellored December 13, 2012 7:13 AM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Aldath wrote:

 Temporal HP.




Is this time traveling HP?
Or HP for learning new laungages, visual identification and long term memory?

Flag DevoDog December 14, 2012 6:07 AM PST

Dec 13, 2012 -- 6:37AM, SadClownIsSad wrote:

The part where I'm also leaning towards an adjustment to saving throws is when a power has save ends on a hit and until the end of your next turn on a miss.

Now, depending on initiative order, and whether the enemy is an elite or solo, a miss could be preferable more often than not.



An easy fix for this would be to have BOTH until end of (caster's) next turn AND Save Ends occur when a Save Ends effect is applied. 

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