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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 7:22AM
#21
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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My problem with it is that it seems clear a lot of people are trying to use it in an unnecessarily derogatory way when it doesn't even have any concrete definition.
But I didn't, so stop painting me with that brush (pun intended)
Plus, a lot of us actually like this style.
Which I said.
but I'm not okay with getting some hip new derogatory phrase to describe one style that's just gotten a lot of play.
Which is why I said, as you quoted, "I agree that would be an unfortunate name to label the aesthetic with"
I really wish you would stop quoting me when it's clear that you have absolutely no intention of responding to (or reading) that which you're quoting.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 7:24AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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But I didn't, so stop painting me with that brush...
I wasn't trying to. I was just explaining the way that I felt. No need to be so defensive. 
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 7:26AM
#23
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Energy Drink Aesthetic = Random inclusion of elements for the sake of coolness and catoring to the demand of the pop art culture.
?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 7:27AM
#24
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Here's more of my fave:
+1 for AD&D DragonLance art 
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 8:57AM
#25
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Interesting that so many of us, when asked “what art defines the FEEL of D&D to you?”, go immediately to D&D art. Not everyone, but most of what’s been posted thus far is either module covers, inside art, or “I heart Caldwell/Frazetta/Dragonlance/etc art.” Not bad, just interesting, because the art that the design team picked was NOT D&D art. I’ll admit myself, the first thing I thought of was DiTerlizzi’s Planescape and 2e MM art. His work, both then and non-D&D now, has always defined the sheer breadth of possibility that I associate/feel with D&D. Whether portraits or larger scenes, his work is a wonderful combination of imagination, detail, and whimsy that tells me “in your world, ANYthing is possible.” His Dragon mag covers have always been very evocative, particularly issues 262, 270, and my personal fave 251. Sorry, I don’t have the images uploaded anywhere to insert, but his gallery including them can be found here.
An fun exercise will be to find NON-modern art that evokes the same feelings, fantasy or not. I could invoke other contemporary artists like James Christensen or James Gurney (Dinotopia) that float my boat, but let's see if we can go further afield than that. Challenge accepted, John!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 9:49AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
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I pretty much agree with wrecan's opinions on the art styles. I prefer the older style more than the newer style. I want a variety, though.
- I like art focused on a central image for character portrait and item descrition styles; or even just the central image, without a background.
- I like art that details the background, more than the foreground, for story-based style; such as book covers or chapter intros.
- I like both foreground and background detail for scenic art; such as in adventure modules or magaizines.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 10:03AM
#27
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Anything from Order of the Stick or 8-Bit Theatre gets the "essence" about right. The silly cartoons in the AD&D DMG are dead on perfect. 
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 2:02PM
#28
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My problem with it is that it seems clear a lot of people are trying to use it in an unnecessarily derogatory way when it doesn't even have any concrete definition.
I wouldn't say I'm using it in an unnecessarily derogatory way, and I think it has a concrete definition (or as close to a concrete definition as you can get for an aesthetic). It is the aesthetic of exaggerations and extremes. Hyperkinetic poses, hypermasculine men, hypersexualized women, hypertrophied equipment: everything is hyper. So as a term of opprobrium I think "energy-drink aesthetic" is entirely appropriate. If we just called it "the new suckitude aesthetic" or whatever, that would be unnecessary, because it wouldn't put a pointer on what exactly about the aesthetic we don't like.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 2:19PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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I'm not going to repost all the images I put in the comments section of Jon's article, but here is my absolute favorite D&D illustration of all time.
Wow! That's a great one. I can totally see Mab of the Dresden Files looking like that from time to time.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 2:36PM
#30
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Interesting that so many of us, when asked “what art defines the FEEL of D&D to you?”, go immediately to D&D art. Not everyone, but most of what’s been posted thus far is either module covers, inside art, or “I heart Caldwell/Frazetta/Dragonlance/etc art.” Not bad, just interesting, because the art that the design team picked was NOT D&D art.
I also thought of D&D (and Magic) art first and foremost. I think that's because most fantasy style art I'm familiar with falls into one of a few categories:
1) D&D art of some kind, either old-school B&W line art or modern stylized action art.
2) Art from classic masters (or in the style of them) depicting scenes from mythology.
3) Awful fantasy novel covers. From the descrption, it's pretty clear I consider #3 awful. I also, contrary to the article, consider #2 to be a relatively poor representation of D&D at all, much less a good summary of it's essence. I'd love to pretend like D&D is about something deep and profound and summarizable as a pastoral image from mythology painted by a master, but that's just super wrong. D&D is about adventuring heroes going on adventures. The images in the article do a very poor job of capturing either the text or the mood of D&D. (The second of the three is at least in the right time zone, but I wouldn't pick it in a million years if I had to pick just one image.) To whatever extent it's possible for an opinion (especially about something so subjective) to be just wrong, I think that the article is wrong. It's just hollow pretension. I'm not saying that the image that captures the essence of D&D is some dude in massive spiky black and red armor cleaving through ten monsters at once while their blood splatters onto a chainmail bikini and then he drinks a Red Bull out of a skull, but any image that conveys zero sense of adventure whatsoever feels like just a big miss to me. Isn't it possible to be pointlessly pretentious without missing the mark so completely that it's utterly transparent that that's what you're doing? TL:DR: D&D is an adventure game. Scenes that do not convey some sense of adventure are bad representations of D&D's essence.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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