Tome of Battle was broken. I had a group that ran ToB characters and I had to throw encounters that were significantly more powerful than I had to use against other character class mixes in order to challenge them.
Suffice to say, that was not my experience, but at least it kind of jives with the evaluations from the "3e Class Tiers", in that there were a lot of terrible classes in 3e.
If you want to play a dragonborn so badly that you are willing to ruin someone elses fun, then you shouldn't be in that game as a player in the first place. Pick a different race that you will have fun with and move on.
If you want to play a dragonborn so badly that you are willing to ruin someone elses fun, then you shouldn't be in that game as a player in the first place. Pick a different race that you will have fun with and move on.
And if you want to ban a dragonborn that badly to ruin someone elses fun, you can also move onto a different game.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
The DM has the right to restrict his game whatever way he likes, but the DM cannot demand players to play their game. The DM Player relationship is simple demand and supply.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
If you want to play a dragonborn so badly that you are willing to ruin someone elses fun, then you shouldn't be in that game as a player in the first place. Pick a different race that you will have fun with and move on.
And if you want to ban a dragonborn that badly to ruin someone elses fun, you can also move onto a different game.
But I'm not. In 30 years and hundreds of players, I have encountered exactly 0 people who could only have fun with one race/class. The onus is on the player since he CAN have fun without that race. If you would just open your mind and consider my words rationally, you'd see that I'm right. You are allowing your bias to cloud your judgment on this.
Only in the extremely rare case where you have a player who somehow can only have fun with dragonborn and a DM who cannot have fun with dragonborn, is there actually any kind of problem.
When I restrict something, it is almost always on a fluff basis. The rare exception is when some mechanical element is causing a disturbance to the game and to the fun.
When I say I restrict based on fluff, I mean I restrict the fluff, not the class. Let's say (hypothetically) I'm running a campaign in which East-Asian inspired fluff would be out-of-place. I as DM would not restrict the players' access to classes like Samurai or Ninja or Wu-Jen, since the player can refluff the mechanics in a setting appropriate way.
At a certain level, a class is really just a collection of mechanics and rules with a sheen of story dripped on top. If you can change the flavor (and still have the mechanics "speak" to that new flavor), I have no problem with it as a DM.
Respect my setting, and I'll respect your freedom.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
That's my perspective as well Foxface. To me, the class flavor is just one way of expressing mechanics at the table. Heck, it might be the best way but certainly not the only way.
But I'm not. In 30 years and hundreds of players, I have encountered exactly 0 people who could only have fun with one race/class. The onus is on the player since he CAN have fun without that race.
The onus is on both parties. Since you CAN have fun with the race.
Yes, it's going to be extreamly rare for someone to only have fun playing one race, but it's also extreamly rare for a DM to have all his fun ruined by a single race. But you already know one of those...
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
But I'm not. In 30 years and hundreds of players, I have encountered exactly 0 people who could only have fun with one race/class. The onus is on the player since he CAN have fun without that race.
The onus is on both parties. Since you CAN have fun with the race.
You have a lot of nerve trying to tell me that I'm wrong about my own feelings.
Yes, it's going to be extreamly rare for someone to only have fun playing one race, but it's also extreamly rare for a DM to have all his fun ruined by a single race. But you already know one of those...
Many people can't stand one race/class/creature or other from D&D. It's a common occurrance. But I guess the whole world has to conform to how you see things since their feelings are wrong, you being the only one that can tell them how they feel.
But I'm not. In 30 years and hundreds of players, I have encountered exactly 0 people who could only have fun with one race/class. The onus is on the player since he CAN have fun without that race.
The onus is on both parties. Since you CAN have fun with the race.
You have a lot of nerve trying to tell me that I'm wrong about my own feelings.
No, i'm just saying your feelings aren't above other people's feelings. Both sides are responsible.
Many people can't stand one race/class/creature or other from D&D. It's a common occurrance. But I guess the whole world has to conform to how you see things since their feelings are wrong, you being the only one that can tell them how they feel.
So if a player doesn't like humans, elves, and dwarves, does that mean you will ban them from your campaign?
How about if one player doesn't like cities, another doesn't like the wilderness and a third doesn't like the underdark?
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
