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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 9:49AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
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Is factotum off the table, and if so seriously just break his campaign he sounds scared and afraid of fun concepts so just show him what good old "balanced" core can do... My favourite is a druid for just smashing everything wide open
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 11:38AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2012
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Yeah can't be a factotum either, no access to dungeonscape. Guess I never noticed the limited class selection before cuz I've always played something out of PHB1. I'll see if I can work something out with the DM next time we play.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:16PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
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Just saying druid is in ph1 :P
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 12:49PM
#24
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In core only, your best bet for a rogue that focuses on alchemy is a straight rogue with a dip into a casting class. You need to be a caster to create most alchemical items.
For your dip, you've got options. Dipping wizard gives you a familiar and access to the best spell list in the game via spell trigger items. Dipping cleric gives you access to the cleric list (which is kind of meh for a rogue in core), but more importantly two domains. Luck in particular is nice for a rogue. Bard keeps your skills up.
Or if you don't mind waiting until ECL 6 to actually craft any items, Assassin works well.
I'd probably go with bard, personally, if only for the skills and ability to activate wands of glibness with no chance of failure. An acid-throwing Bard 1/Rogue 19 with enough downtime to always be well-stocked in acid, alchemist's fire and tanglefoot bags would be about as good as it gets for a non-casting rogue in a strict core only game.
Also, I see a lot of hate for Alchemist Savant. I actually rather like the PrC. Artificers and wizards meet the qualifications super easily, and it progresses casting 5/5 levels. Potions aren't that useful to create, but the universal potion is pretty neat, and the ability to combine alchemical items with poison or spellvials is actually quite handy. If nothing else, combining a decent injury poison with acid means that you can hit multiple enemies with a single dose of poison, without needing to attack them. (And your Mark of Making means good poison is plentiful.)
The quick alchemy feature also means you can craft in way less time than usual, which is nice if your group doesn't have a lot of downtime.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 1:20PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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Hold on. Rogue 20 with TWF throwing flasks is one of the most solid builds outside of full casters. Especially if you get to craft your own without needing to be a caster to craft your own alchemical fire. (If you do have to be a caster, I recomend wizard 1/rogue 19, its basically the same. Stronger build, but more "complicated") I'll drop the basics, but some of you guys should already know the rest. A rogue can sneak attack on anything requiring an attack roll. "Acid
You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash." Do normal rogue, take twf and rapid shot and you should be golden. Your DM will probably berate you for being broken because fighters can't have nice things, and you one shotting everything is breaking his game. Especially if he thought spellthief was broken. Seriously, ignore the suggestions to "Be a druid, its PHB1". You can show him some stupid strong stuff in core without being a caster, or going outside your build concept. (You will be throwing acid flasks for 1d6 acid [who cares] + 10d6 sneak attack about 8 times a round. As a touch attack.)
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 1:28PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2011
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Another quite solid build is the horizonwalker. (Google it, sag it in Another Forum ) thea Basic idea is a tripper with much skillpoints AMD Access to Dimension door at will. If you dont have a lot of buffs in your group.combine it with a Level of rogue and skill UMD For buffs. Just shutted down a Dragon with a CR 2 or 3 levels higher due to polymorph and.a staff of valiant. Fury.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 1:43PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2011
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Spellthief is broken?! Spellthief?!  What, exactly, do you need a rogue for? Use a cleric with the Trickery (or Kobold) domain, and be sure to have Detect Snares & Pits handy. You'll never have to worry about traps again.
I'm willing to bet that the BBEG of the campaign is some sort of caster (since Spellthief is one of those base classes that I look at, then bury again...too dependent on the opponent for its abilities).
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 4:59PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2012
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Hold on. Rogue 20 with TWF throwing flasks is one of the most solid builds outside of full casters. Especially if you get to craft your own without needing to be a caster to craft your own alchemical fire. (If you do have to be a caster, I recomend wizard 1/rogue 19, its basically the same. Stronger build, but more "complicated")
I'll drop the basics, but some of you guys should already know the rest. A rogue can sneak attack on anything requiring an attack roll.
"Acid
You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash."
Do normal rogue, take twf and rapid shot and you should be golden. Your DM will probably berate you for being broken because fighters can't have nice things, and you one shotting everything is breaking his game. Especially if he thought spellthief was broken.
Seriously, ignore the suggestions to "Be a druid, its PHB1". You can show him some stupid strong stuff in core without being a caster, or going outside your build concept.
(You will be throwing acid flasks for 1d6 acid [who cares] + 10d6 sneak attack about 8 times a round. As a touch attack.)
Hmm that does look very sexy. Any items in particular that would help out with throwing massive amounts of projectiles around (creating flasks quicker, retrieving multiple flasks as free actions etc)? Feats are a bit more self-explanitory with the usual +attack +damage etc. Think I may try this out in the epic level campaign instead of the level twelve one and grab Distant Shot, plus that way I can actually afford a greater invis ring to sneak attack on every flask thrown.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 5:15PM
#29
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2010
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CJ, why don't you try to be helpgul? Within the constraints (specifically, wanting to play a missile alchemist), what classes should he use, feats, skills (if any are necessary other than Craft (Alchemy)), etc?
Mine was among the most helpful posts in the thread. Wizard/Rogue is like Wizard/Fighter, or Wizard/Commoner. It's just... no is the best way to put it.
Hold on. Rogue 20 with TWF throwing flasks is one of the most solid builds outside of full casters. Especially if you get to craft your own without needing to be a caster to craft your own alchemical fire. (If you do have to be a caster, I recomend wizard 1/rogue 19, its basically the same. Stronger build, but more "complicated")
Ignore this. A commoner can easily put out higher damage. And Wizard 1/Rogue 19 is less powerful and less versatile than wizard 5.
Spellthief is broken?! Spellthief?! What, exactly, do you need a rogue for? Use a cleric with the Trickery (or Kobold) domain, and be sure to have Detect Snares & Pits handy. You'll never have to worry about traps again.
I'm willing to bet that the BBEG of the campaign is some sort of caster (since Spellthief is one of those base classes that I look at, then bury again...too dependent on the opponent for its abilities).
Spellthieves are honestly horrible at killing wizards. I'm betting this is more a "C0R3 1Z T3H BALANC3D!!!1eleventyone!1!" type of thing.
I seriously suggest a druid. It's pretty "point-and-click." Wizards, while much better, require a lot more systems mastery and work.
I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.
Resident flaming Frickin' Awesome Guy
Flamboyant Flamer of the House of Trolls
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6 months ago ::
Dec 12, 2012 - 5:18PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2012
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