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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:24AM
#51
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SoD monsters are not about killing players, they are about the tension they create. making it so that a part could easily kill a medusa before her spell takes hold really destroys that tension.
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:24AM
#52
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What about counting up to a stat like Constitution for Flesh to Stone? It would deal 1d6 stone points per round until it reached the targets Constitution score at which point it would be turned to stone. First failed save would still slow it though...
I just really dislike "stone points".
But yea, the idea in general works well.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:26AM
#53
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Yeah, you need to go back and look at those save or die spells and how fireball works with expansion anything blocking it and compression. Maybe play the game RAW instead of with your 30 pages of house rules...
In all fairness, he was talking about the damaging aspect of the spells and NOT the other parts and he is quite correct in that regards. In old editions the wizard used fireball regularly and it remained effective. In 3e the only time fireball got used effectively was when buffed through metamagic feats and more often then not only by NPC sorcerer opponents. Hard control effects were much more effective in 3e. In 4E I have never seen a wizard use fireball 
No actually in 1E Fireball did different things based on whether you were inside or out it used a compression rule that it filled the same space so if you cast it down a 5' hallway it would likely expand to be big enough to kill your entire party. It also didn't have that huge of a range so it was always a risk to cast it. It was a very situational spell. You had to have a big enough area to cast it and none of your party members could be in the area because the damage alone could take just about anyone out. Yeah, I really think he's looking through nostalgia tinted glasses at that one. I really wish he'd go back and play 1E RAW just to see what happens...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:29AM
#54
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I think they need a "channeled" keyword.
Channeled: This spell or effect takes full concentration. You must spend your action each round to maintain the effect and can only move at half-speed. If you take damage you must make a concentration check. If you choose not to, or are unable to take the action, the effect ends.
Or some such.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:33AM
#55
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Yeah, you need to go back and look at those save or die spells and how fireball works with expansion anything blocking it and compression. Maybe play the game RAW instead of with your 30 pages of house rules...
In all fairness, he was talking about the damaging aspect of the spells and NOT the other parts and he is quite correct in that regards. In old editions the wizard used fireball regularly and it remained effective. In 3e the only time fireball got used effectively was when buffed through metamagic feats and more often then not only by NPC sorcerer opponents. Hard control effects were much more effective in 3e. In 4E I have never seen a wizard use fireball
No actually in 1E Fireball did different things based on whether you were inside or out it used a compression rule that it filled the same space so if you cast it down a 5' hallway it would likely expand to be big enough to kill your entire party. It also didn't have that huge of a range so it was always a risk to cast it. It was a very situational spell. You had to have a big enough area to cast it and none of your party members could be in the area because the damage alone could take just about anyone out. Yeah, I really think he's looking through nostalgia tinted glasses at that one. I really wish he'd go back and play 1E RAW just to see what happens...
That's all completely situational though. Purely mechanically, meaning spell damage to monster hp, it remained much more useful than later editions.
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:35AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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I think they need a "channeled" keyword.
Yep. And there may be a specific action for being able to do something active and engaging while channeling, rather than just stalling for time.
Let's call it 'minor action' or something like that 
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:37AM
#57
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What about counting up to a stat like Constitution for Flesh to Stone? It would deal 1d6 stone points per round until it reached the targets Constitution score at which point it would be turned to stone. First failed save would still slow it though...
I just really dislike "stone points".
But yea, the idea in general works well.
Well you can't really do ability damage because that means adjusting everything that relies on that stat and that's a lot of stuff with attacks, defenses, saves, and skill checks all requiring stats.
So counting up lets you know how close you are without having to recalculate everything. All of these points could also go away after an extended rest and/or be tracked for different things. Charm could work in a similar way.
Charm Person
1st level Enchantment
You weave words and gestures that enthral your target.
Effect: Choose a target within 50'. As long as you Concentrate or for up to 10 rounds that target must make a saving throw each round on your turn. The first time they fail you gain advantage on all social checks against them that don't have anything to do with harming themselves or their friends. You also deal 1d6 charm points. Charm points are counted up from 0. When they reach the targets Charisma score the target is Charmed for 1 hour. Three successful saves in a row allows the target to realize that you have cast a charm person spell on them.
You can come up with a different name instead of "stone points" or "charm points" but the idea is sound...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:39AM
#58
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Yeah, you need to go back and look at those save or die spells and how fireball works with expansion anything blocking it and compression. Maybe play the game RAW instead of with your 30 pages of house rules...
In all fairness, he was talking about the damaging aspect of the spells and NOT the other parts and he is quite correct in that regards. In old editions the wizard used fireball regularly and it remained effective. In 3e the only time fireball got used effectively was when buffed through metamagic feats and more often then not only by NPC sorcerer opponents. Hard control effects were much more effective in 3e. In 4E I have never seen a wizard use fireball
No actually in 1E Fireball did different things based on whether you were inside or out it used a compression rule that it filled the same space so if you cast it down a 5' hallway it would likely expand to be big enough to kill your entire party. It also didn't have that huge of a range so it was always a risk to cast it. It was a very situational spell. You had to have a big enough area to cast it and none of your party members could be in the area because the damage alone could take just about anyone out. Yeah, I really think he's looking through nostalgia tinted glasses at that one. I really wish he'd go back and play 1E RAW just to see what happens...
That's all completely situational though. Purely mechanically, meaning spell damage to monster hp, it remained much more useful than later editions.
Even from a purely damage stand point the save or die spell was always superior. That no one on the development team realized this lowers my respect for them...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:42AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2012
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Until the last paragraph, it was going so well...
Why? You don't like options for everyone?
My mind is a deal-breaker.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 6:43AM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Until the last paragraph, it was going so well...
Why? You don't like options for everyone?
No, because everyone is forced to use all of the monsters. Always. All of the time.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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