I don't know why anyone would want to run a system of DnD where you heal after every encounter. This de-emphasizes the balance of other strategic resources and prioritzes holding onto to dailies for the Big Bad even more, as now if you get knocked about against a bunch of Goblins, who cares?
People who support an encounter paradigm do not want dailies. That's kinda the whole idea, resources are on the encounter level and therefore all strategy is contained within an encounter. You don't "save up" for the big boss. Among many things this makes the job of the DM much easier since designing encounters does not involve calculating the potential results when the party has all daily resources available, some available and none available.
Any encounter that doesn't threaten to wipe the party is now strategically insignificant.
Any encounter that doesn't threaten the party should not be an encounter. If the group finds a lone goblin in a cave I don't ask people to roll for initiative and play the scene out as if it were a combat.
Many experienced DMs would disagree with you. It's the nature of a more fluid and believable settings that adventurers invariably run into monsters both considerably more power and considerably weaker than them. Just because a group of PCs reached Level 10 doesn't mean the Goblins of the world are gone. More than just settings, squash encounters against formally difficult foes can give players a sense of perspective and accomplishment in their time invested in the game. "Remember those owlbears that nearly anihilated the group at level 12? We just wiped the floor of a group twice their size!"
Chris Perkins has written more than a few articles in the Dungeon Master Experience chronicling his success with this mechanic.
Anyways, as for the topic at hand, by eliminating the strategic value of HP you're honestly just dumbing down the experience and range of choices players have to make. DnD is all about making tough choices, it has been since it's inception (Probably even more so in the first couple editions, what with the common odds of death). To move away from mechanics like this, I would then submit, is to move away from the basis of DnD. The Dungeon Crawl is paced entirely by limited resources, and it's what rachets the tension the deeper you go into the heart of the lair. For people who decry 4e for "Mainstreaming" mechanics, I can't think of anything more "Casual" than automatically recovering health. Since it's inception in games like Halo 2, there are few things more prevalent in modern games than this, but while it adds accesibility it negates from the depth of choice and, thus, the ultimate role-playing experience.
"If all the classes can compete on equal footing in a combat situation then it becomes less about "Which is the best" and more about "Which conveys the character I want to play"." - Areleth
Anyways, as for the topic at hand, by eliminating the strategic value of HP you're honestly just dumbing down the experience and range of choices players have to make. DnD is all about making tough choices, it has been since it's inception (Probably even more so in the first couple editions, what with the common odds of death). To move away from mechanics like this, I would then submit, is to move away from the basis of DnD. The Dungeon Crawl is paced entirely by limited resources, and it's what rachets the tension the deeper you go into the heart of the lair. For people who decry 4e for "Mainstreaming" mechanics, I can't think of anything more "Casual" than automatically recovering health. Since it's inception in games like Halo 2, there are few things more prevalent in modern games than this, but while it adds accesibility it negates from the depth of choice and, thus, the ultimate role-playing experience.
Two things.
1. An encounter paradigm skips the middle man of making the party plow through trash mobs so they can fight one real big boss encounter at the end, and instead gives strategic depth at the encounter level. Each decision made in an encounter has value because the outcome is determined by the sum of the values. In the daily paradigm you have some encounter become trivial because the party decides to throw around a few dailies. And if they do then a later encounter is more difficult. But this is all just a Rube Goldberg idea to produce the outcome of having an encounter where strategy determines the result. So why not just make combat a system without every member of the party having "I win" cards? Encounters should have intrinsic strategy.
2. There is something perverse in saying the ultimate role-playing experience is achieved through the mechanics of the system. You don't role-play numbers. Whether the numbers are based on the per encounter or per day cycle should not dictate your ability to role-play. It may influence you, but if you can't role-play because the algorithms are different, the problem is with you.
Many experienced DMs would disagree with you. It's the nature of a more fluid and believable settings that adventurers invariably run into monsters both considerably more power and considerably weaker than them. Just because a group of PCs reached Level 10 doesn't mean the Goblins of the world are gone. More than just settings, squash encounters against formally difficult foes can give players a sense of perspective and accomplishment in their time invested in the game. "Remember those owlbears that nearly anihilated the group at level 12? We just wiped the floor of a group twice their size!" Chris Perkins has written more than a few articles in the Dungeon Master Experience chronicling his success with this mechanic. Anyways, as for the topic at hand, by eliminating the strategic value of HP you're honestly just dumbing down the experience and range of choices players have to make. DnD is all about making tough choices, it has been since it's inception (Probably even more so in the first couple editions, what with the common odds of death). To move away from mechanics like this, I would then submit, is to move away from the basis of DnD. The Dungeon Crawl is paced entirely by limited resources, and it's what rachets the tension the deeper you go into the heart of the lair. For people who decry 4e for "Mainstreaming" mechanics, I can't think of anything more "Casual" than automatically recovering health. Since it's inception in games like Halo 2, there are few things more prevalent in modern games than this, but while it adds accesibility it negates from the depth of choice and, thus, the ultimate role-playing experience.
You do realize that there's nothing about having HP as an encounter resource that requires you to never fight monsters above or below your level? Yes, an easy fight is trivial, but you can have a trivial fight once in a while, or you can just throw twice as many of them in and make it not trivial but still apparent that you've grown. That right there wipes out half your argument. The other half is wiped out by the fact that in many if not most games, HP were always an encounter resource because you bought a WCLW.
But more generally, HP is a terrible, terrible choice or means for penalizing a party for having had tough fights earlier in the day. It's horribly swingy, negatable by the spending of (not very much) gold (oh noes, I won't be able to buy that pointless fortress for a whole nother like hour of game time because of that extra WCLW I bought...), and it actively DESTROYS depth of choice and the ultimate roleplaying experience.
Suppose the princess has been kidnapped by the evil cultists and is about to be sacrificed to their dark god. You've fought your way into their dungeon and stand at the front door to the sacrificial altar chamber, but are out of healing spells and HD and have only half your full HP. If you have a WCLW, you heal up to full, no problem you use it and you bust down the door, who cares that HP are a daily resource. If you do not, you get this great roleplaying choice: break in the door at half HP and get totally slaughtered because there's no way a party at half strength can take on any legit BBEG, or go home and let the princess die. Except she's going to be dead anyway, and if you're dead, you won't be around to defend the village from the BBEG next week. So not really a roleplaying choice at all, but a "do I want to commit suicide today for no purpose whatsoever?" choice.
Now suppose, instead, a system where their HP went to full but some other penalty was applied. My personal favorite is where no mechanical penalty is applied per se, so that the level of encounter difficulty that the PCs can overcome remains unchanged. However, the risk of their actually dying goes up, say because once they've been knocked down to 0/taken crits enough times, they'll just die instead of taking a nap. Now the decision is a truly rich RP decision: there's a pretty good chance we can save the princess, but there's also a pretty good chance one of us will die in the attempt. That is the ultimate hero's choice, the ultimate roleplaying experience. And it is only attainable when the penalty for having taken too much damage today doesn't make it statistically impossible to push on successfully.
So no, HP as an encounter resource does not destroy depth of choice. HP as a dailiy resource does, and having absolutely no cost to previous encounters does. Which, btw, is why the whole "just ignore it and heal up to full every rest" doesn't cut it. So before you knock other people's positions, try understanding them.
Okay guys there's no reason to have this argument. Yes, I get that some people strongly believe that hp only represent wounds and so they want a wound system. And they deserve that system! And some people see the value in having full hp at the end of each rest. And they deserve that too. So, the real question isn't "how can we optimize every rule for me", it's how can we optimize rules for the people they're designed for. So, for those who believe that hp are wounds then only magic can fully heal, with time allowing some healing and out of battle allowing only small healing. For them, healing 1 hp/day or 1 hd/day if under surgeons care might be perfect. for people who like healing fully, the rule is easy: if you rest 100 minutes, you regain all hp
Both of those groups already have a rule they love. it just crass to argue that a rule designed for someone else isn't close enough to your ideal. So, who should we be designing a limited recovery scenario for? When does a limited healing scenario work best? Well for people wholike makingdistinctions between wounds/hp, a system of wounds based on bloodied and hp recovery based on bloodied makes sense. And that seems to be what the op wants. Since hp scale based on level, a 1 hp per level just punishes the fighter. Better might be 1/2 of your hd, or something else that scales with hp. Otherwise, monsters do more damage, But hp recovery lags behind.
You get to spend hit diceis and recharge a few powers durring a short rest. And you get a full recharge durring a long rest. (I also kinda want to see a medium rest).
Short can be 1 round, 30 seconds, 5 minutes, an hour, or a day. Long can be 5 minutes, 1 hour, a day, or a week. And you simply pick the one that fits the pace of your campaign.
A slow paced campaign of murder mystery, polotics and very little combat has a short rest be a day, and long rest be a week. (Also works for gritty).
Your default campaign has 5 minute short rests and 1 day long rests.
And a hack and slash combat focused game has 30 second short (possibly doable in combat) rests and 10 minute long rests.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Okay guys there's no reason to have this argument. Yes, I get that some people strongly believe that hp only represent wounds and so they want a wound system. And they deserve that system! And some people see the value in having full hp at the end of each rest. And they deserve that too. So, the real question isn't "how can we optimize every rule for me", it's how can we optimize rules for the people they're designed for. So, for those who believe that hp are wounds then only magic can fully heal, with time allowing some healing and out of battle allowing only small healing. For them, healing 1 hp/day or 1 hd/day if under surgeons care might be perfect. for people who like healing fully, the rule is easy: if you rest 100 minutes, you regain all hp
Both of those groups already have a rule they love. it just crass to argue that a rule designed for someone else isn't close enough to your ideal. So, who should we be designing a limited recovery scenario for? When does a limited healing scenario work best? Well for people wholike makingdistinctions between wounds/hp, a system of wounds based on bloodied and hp recovery based on bloodied makes sense. And that seems to be what the op wants. Since hp scale based on level, a 1 hp per level just punishes the fighter. Better might be 1/2 of your hd, or something else that scales with hp. Otherwise, monsters do more damage, But hp recovery lags behind.
The problem is that boh versions don't fit well on the same core skeleton. Changing how HP works changes the dynamic of the whole game. Change HP to encounter in the current playtest and many things no longer fit and aren't balanced.
Also, none of those options are rules that I love or even like. I'm pretty sure refocus wasn't meant to do what it says it does, because if it were then the whole first two paragraphs are a waste of space, and if you put a "bloodied" caveat into refocus to harmonize it with the rest of the system it no longer does anything like what I want it to. But more than that, as utterly wrong as TomShambles was about everything else he said, he was right that completely eliminating any penalty of having taken damage is a mistake (if for different reasons than the ones he thinks are the problem). Currently, we don't have that "annoying but not debilitating non-HP penalty" that I want. Now I'm capable of houseruling it in myself, but it would be nice if something like it made it into the rules (of course as one option among many) in a way that was supported by the system. Like by not having energy drain either directly invalidate it or force me to houserule that too into something completely different yet somehow both balanced and interesting, which is next to impossible because the current energy drain applies almost the entirety of its penalties to future encounters so I can't up the pain now without releveling the monster but if I don't reduce the pain later then I've violated my own design principles so where do I stick enough pain to make the mechanic meaningful? Answer: by rewriting the monster. And frankly once I'm rewriting the game and houseruling the crap out of everything to make it support my playstyle, I'd rather start with some other foundation that isn't riddled with crappy math, boring non-options, classes specifically designed to upstage each other rather than collaborate, and sundry other 40 year old sacred cows.
Also, none of those options are rules that I love or even like.
Yeah. I'm finding their solutions to add encounter based HP to be inferior to wands of Cure Light Wounds or infinite healing potions(how we played 2E), both of which were lame solutions to begin with.
Healing after every fight basically makes HP an encounter based recourse. If the game is based on encounter based recources it might be fine,, but at the moment most finite recources tend to be daily so healing probably should follow suit. It's all about the theme of the game.
This is something I would like to see changed, whether in the base game, or via modular adaptation. I would LOVE a purely encounter-based paradigm.
