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Switch to Forum Live View Fixing Exploitable Refocus and On Healing In General
6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 7:29PM #1
KV.555
Date Joined: Jan 3, 2006
Posts: 76
Background
One of the most powerful tenets of D&D that I read in the first edition DM's guide was the explanation of Hit Points.  Hit Points are not so much a representation of the damage you can take (ie 40 hit points doesnt mean you can withstand 5 hits to the face with a battleaxe) but a representation of fatigue and experience too.  For example, if you have 40 hit points and take 20 hit points of damage, you may not exhibit any wounds at all or just minor stratches and bruises.

This was the beauty of some of the healing rules in 4e.  The thinking say behind "Inspiring Word" and healing surges is that you regain morale and rest and get a lot of hit points left because you are removing fatigue rather than fixing huge holes in your spleen and severed arms.  

Enter D&D Next and "Refocus".  Refocus is an Experimental Rule on page 19 of the "How to Play" guide and reads that you can make a DC 10 CON check to heal 1+ CON modifier in damage.

This ability has two problems as written.  First, it can be used infinitely and therefore after each fight, the party can be fully healed.  Which is broken.  Second, it only heals 1+ CON.  So you could be level 15 and have 100 hit points and heal 3.  Too weak.

Here is how I houseruled it, keeping in mind what I said in the first paragraph:
1.  It heals CON+Level.  At least this way, if you're level 15 with 100 hit points, you regain 17 hit points.
2.  It can only be used during "dangerous" combat.  Basically only in combat and you can't say "ok keep the Orc alive while we all Refocus to full!!!!"
3.  You can only use it while not bloodied.  This is key because you can't just "refocus" your large intestine back inside your stomach and your flesh repairs.  But you can "refocus" if you're a little tired or have a few bumps and bruises.       
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 7:43PM #2
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,095

Dec 8, 2012 -- 7:29PM, KV.555 wrote:

First, it can be used infinitely and therefore after each fight, the party can be fully healed.  Which is broken.  



Explain why this is bad.

Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 7:51PM #3
Saelorn
Date Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 2,932
If you're using HP as a measure of fatigue, which is the default assumption in 4E and the basis behind the re-focus action, then it makes perfect sense that you go back up to full when you can sit and catch your breath after the fight.  That part is working as intended, at least.

As for it being a waste of an action to heal between 1 and 6 HP when you have 100 or more HP total, I would suggest making it 1 per level, plus CON.
The metagame is not the game.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:08PM #4
KV.555
Date Joined: Jan 3, 2006
Posts: 76
It's partly a measure of fatigue, not fully.  For example, let's say you have 40 hps.

40-30 might be fully fatigue.
30-20 might be you have a few minor cuts and bruises
20-10 might be you have some more serious wounds, such as a broken arm from a mace hit
10-0 might be critical wounds such as a slash that opens up your stomach

Refocusing yourself mentally may be fine from 20-40, but you can't mentally refocus a gaping slash to your stomach.

Why is healing to full bad after each fight?  This means a party never really needs to manage resources and the DM has a lot more work to do to ensure each fight is more dangerous.  It also makes healing potions and spells a lot less needed.         
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:13PM #5
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,095

Dec 8, 2012 -- 8:08PM, KV.555 wrote:

Why is healing to full bad after each fight?  This means a party never really needs to manage resources and the DM has a lot more work to do to ensure each fight is more dangerous.  It also makes healing potions and spells a lot less needed.         



I fail to see why your first point is automatically a bad thing.
Your second point is incorrect.  If the party heals to full after each fight, the DM has a better idea of what to expect they'll be capable of.  This makes the DM's encounter planning easier, not harder.
I fail to see why your third point is automatically a bad thing.

Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:52PM #6
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,493
Healing after every fight basically makes HP an encounter based recourse. If the game is based on encounter based recources it might be fine,, but at the moment most finite recources tend to be daily so healing probably should follow suit. It's all about the theme of the game.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:57PM #7
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,524

Dec 8, 2012 -- 8:52PM, Jenks wrote:

Healing after every fight basically makes HP an encounter based recourse. If the game is based on encounter based recources it might be fine,, but at the moment most finite recources tend to be daily so healing probably should follow suit. It's all about the theme of the game.




This is something I would like to see changed, whether in the base game, or via modular adaptation.  I would LOVE a purely encounter-based paradigm.

Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 9:41PM #8
LadyBlackwell
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2012
Posts: 226
I don't see what the problem is with being at full HP after a battle.  This should help alleviate part of the problem of the five minute work day, plus help the DM balance combats appropriately, as characters should be closer to full potential during the entirety of the adventure. 

It also helps me with that tick I get when I consistently fight monsters at full HP and nobody can explain to me why.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 9:54PM #9
zago
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2012
Posts: 642
It's interesting and weird. I actually think it would be cooler if it were an action.There is lots of optional rules that allow  groups to heal up in between encounters. I'm doing the opposite in the next session and trying the one where you don't get any hit points after a rest, you just get all hit dice back. 

I have one player who is not happy about it, but it's just for playtest sake. I figured this might make the weaker monsters feel more intersting. Players are already not too afraid of encounters (weak monsters), I figured maybe they shouldn't be afraid of death, but just the fear that they will get hurt too much, and not be able to replenish in teh following day could make the encounters feel more serious. We'll see!

I liked when mearls in the google hangout video said that they might just do getting Half your HP after any short rest tho. It's easy. Not much work for it, and makes a lot of sense (IMO). With the huge benefit of herbalism, and clerics, and healing up over night it seems like a simpler mechanic then hit dice would be ok. 

I remeber the old days where I had guys in and knocked out for a week or so in some games (maybe that was 2nd, not sure), definately don't want that ever again. 
My mind is a deal-breaker.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 12:02AM #10
TomShambles
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 107
I don't know why anyone would want to run a system of DnD where you heal after every encounter. This de-emphasizes the balance of other strategic resources and prioritzes holding onto to dailies for the Big Bad even more, as now if you get knocked about against a bunch of Goblins, who cares? As long as one guy stays standing, it's like it never happened! Any encounter that doesn't threaten to wipe the party is now strategically insignificant. If you're looking to fix the 5-minute workday, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water on this one.

It's not even something you need a module for. Or rather, allow me to write the extent of the module for DM's who couldn't figure this out themselves:

"If you don't like healing after each encounter, you can give your PCs full health after every encounter. You know, if you want."
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