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Switch to Forum Live View Asking for optimization help Duskblade.
6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:44PM #11
draco1119
  • California Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,815
You bolder the wrong sentence, dood. Read the first sentence again, especially the part about "weapons one size category LARGER THAN YOU ARE". This isn't 3e, it's 3.5; 2H weapons are called 2H weapons, not Large weapons anymore. It doesn't work the way you think it does.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:57PM #12
Zaramon
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1,426

Dec 8, 2012 -- 3:44PM, draco1119 wrote:

You bolder the wrong sentence, dood. Read the first sentence again, especially the part about "weapons one size category LARGER THAN YOU ARE". This isn't 3e, it's 3.5; 2H weapons are called 2H weapons, not Large weapons anymore. It doesn't work the way you think it does.




It totally does work the way I think it does. That's the 3.5 version of the feat. It says weapons one size category larger. Medium character, large weapon. Look at the sentence I underlined again. You can use large weapons with one hand if you're a medium sized character, so long as you have the feat. It says so right in there. A greatsword is only a large bastard sword, and a small greatsword is just a bastard sword. The only thing that determines whether or not a weapon is two-handed, is the size relative to the creature wielding it. That's why ogres can wield greatswords one-handed. The only reason greatswords are listed as 2h in the PHB is because there are no large races in the PHB. Hell, there are even different damage entries for weapons of different sizes. If you have both EWPs, you could do it.

Edit: Wait, my bad, large longsword skips bastard sword. What was I thinking. Large Longsword is a greatsword. So you only need one EWP.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 4:00PM #13
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 274
A duskblade just really if I recall correctly needs a 2h weapon level 13 and as many power attack increases/flat damage as possible to use wraith strike to hit touch while doing full power attacks. Vampiric touch can help keep your hp up if you worried and I believe they get swift flight/dimension door if in a rocky spot. Just my 2 cents I was in a campaign with a duskblade once and it looked quite fun from a utility and from a damage perspective. Also I should mention they are what hexblades should have been
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 4:02PM #14
Azoriel
Date Joined: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 26
How important is playing a Duskblade to you (vice playing some other class)?  Do you just want to play a Gish?  Putting all your levels in Cleric (or Battle Sorcerer, as mentioned earlier) can give you a Gish just as easily.  That's not to say you shouldn't play a Duskblade if you don't want to - it's just that Duskblade isn't normally considered a standard Gish class, since it has no buff spells (the stapple of most Gishes) and almost all attack spells.

The Duskblade works by dealing damage/debuffs, usually by combining melee attacks with spellcasting.  As StevenO said, focus on that and you should be golden.  Is there any particular reason why you selected Dragonborn as your race?  A suggestion I might give you is to consider playing an illumian, as then you could pull the aeshkrau sigil and then base your bonus spells off of your strength score - a definite plus for a strength-based Gish.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 4:04PM #15
Zaramon
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1,426

Dec 8, 2012 -- 4:00PM, frost.fire wrote:

Also I should mention they are what hexblades should have been




This. The only really solid hexblade build is a heavy debuffer/life-drainer.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 4:32PM #16
Jackrub
Date Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Posts: 16
I didn't pick to play a duskblade.  I was given a survy before the game which I filled out and they gave me the stuff you see there.  I just sort of want to know what spells, feats and items to take.  Right now my thinking is

feats:
Knowledge Devotion
Obtain familiar
Improved familiar (IMP)
Power Attack
Versatile Spellcaster

spells
 
oth
touch of fatigue
1st 5
Chill Touch (touch attack, lasts r-p-lv, 1d6 extra cold damage and 1 Strength damage undead saving throw or run) 
Shocking Grasp (touch attack, 5d6 extra damage +3 attack if target is metal or wearing)
True Strike (standard action, +20 insight bonus to next attack)
Resist Energy(130 min 30 points resistance choices acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic)
Obscuring Mist(20 ft radius mist)
2nd 4
Dimension hop(touch attack teleport 30 ft will save 16)
Swift Fly (swift action, fly one round)
Touch of Idiocy (touch attack 1d6 damage to Int, Wis and Cha)
Swift Invisibility (swift action, Invisibility for 1 round)
*Dragonshard 2nd lv Wraithstrike (swift action, one round my attacks are touch attacks)
3rd 3
Greater Magic Weapon (make weapon +4 for 13 hours)
Vampiric Touch (touch attack, 6d6 extra damage gain as much temp hp as damage delt)
*Dragonshard 3rd lv Shivering Touch (touch attack, 3d6 Dex damage)
4th
Dimension door

items:
Hand of Glory (DMG 258) 8,000 gp neck slot
Shadow Clock (DotU) 5,500 shoulder slot
Talisman of Undying Fortitude (MIC). 8,000GP Held
Third Eye Clarity (MIC). 3,000GP, face slot
Horn of Plenty (MIC). 12,000GP held
Handy Haversack 2,000
Belt of Battle (MIC) 12,000 waist
Ring of wizardry 1 20,000 ring
Drake Helm 1 slot (XPH) 8000
*Dragonshard 3rd lv Shivering Touch 5,000 gp
*Wraithstrike 3rd lv 5,000 gp 
Imp carries to buff me
Eternal wand enlarge Person 820 gp
Eternal wand haste 10,900 gp
Eternal wand Heroism 5,000 gp (caster lv 5)
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 4:39PM #17
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,067

Dec 8, 2012 -- 3:57PM, Zaramon wrote:

Dec 8, 2012 -- 3:44PM, draco1119 wrote:

You bolder the wrong sentence, dood. Read the first sentence again, especially the part about "weapons one size category LARGER THAN YOU ARE". This isn't 3e, it's 3.5; 2H weapons are called 2H weapons, not Large weapons anymore. It doesn't work the way you think it does.


It totally does work the way I think it does. That's the 3.5 version of the feat. It says weapons one size category larger. Medium character, large weapon. Look at the sentence I underlined again. You can use large weapons with one hand if you're a medium sized character, so long as you have the feat. It says so right in there. A greatsword is only a large bastard sword, and a small greatsword is just a bastard sword. The only thing that determines whether or not a weapon is two-handed, is the size relative to the creature wielding it. That's why ogres can wield greatswords one-handed. The only reason greatswords are listed as 2h in the PHB is because there are no large races in the PHB. Hell, there are even different damage entries for weapons of different sizes. If you have both EWPs, you could do it.
.



NO.  The feat does NOT work the way you think it does.  Monkey Grip allow you (a medium sized creature) to wield a large longsword with one hand.  A large longsword is NOT the same as a medium sized greatsword even if they have stats that look almost identical.  The lines you have bolded and underlined are just explaining the rule.  NORMALLY, if you wanted to wield a large longsword you're going to need to use two hands to do it but with the Monkey Grip feat you know can do it with one hand; you can still use two hands on the weapon just like you can use two hands on a normal longsword.  No where does it say it makes it easier to wield weapons that normally take two hands to use.

An Ogre can wield a greatsword one handed because it is a two-handed weapon for a smaller creature.  When it does it takes a penalty to his attack rolls using that weapon.  Of course that Ogre may be able to pick up a large longsword with characteristic similar to the greatsword but it wouldn's suffer the penalties for wielding a weapon that isn't properly sized for it.  If you look in the PHB you will see that weapon damage is listed for different sized creatures who may wield that weapon; the table may just cover the small and medium sized versions of the weapons but the table could be expanded to cover the larger and smaller versions of a listed weapons.  The actual "handedness" doesn't change with weapon size except when you try to wield a weapon that is inappropriately sized for you.

I also have some pretty serious doubts about getting a weapon that deals "normal" damage and has a threat range of 13-20/x4.  Perhaps you would be so kind as to show how an 19-20/x2 weapon goes to that?  Please note the source of anything that isn't in the PHB to make verification easier.
 

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 7:20PM #18
Zaramon
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1,426

Dec 8, 2012 -- 4:39PM, StevenO wrote:

NO.  The feat does NOT work the way you think it does.  Monkey Grip allow you (a medium sized creature) to wield a large longsword with one hand.  A large longsword is NOT the same as a medium sized greatsword even if they have stats that look almost identical.




2d6, 19-20, x2, 8 lbs, required two-handed for medium creatures, martial weapon. Here, read it again.

For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed
weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed
weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat.
For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered
a one-handed weapon.

See? Large longsword, one handed for a large creature, just like a greatsword, but it's two-handed for a medium sized creature. For something that doesn't have the feat. However, if you do have the feat, a large longsword, something ordinarily a two-handed weapon for a medium sized creature, becomes a one-handed weapon for a medium sized creature, if that medium sized creature has the feat. Straight-up RAW. You cannot argue this. It flat out says it, two-handed weapon becomes a one-handed weapon for a medium sized creature with this feat. Deal.

Dec 8, 2012 -- 4:39PM, StevenO wrote:

The lines you have bolded and underlined are just explaining the rule.  NORMALLY, if you wanted to wield a large longsword you're going to need to use two hands to do it but with the Monkey Grip feat you know can do it with one hand; you can still use two hands on the weapon just like you can use two hands on a normal longsword.  No where does it say it makes it easier to wield weapons that normally take two hands to use.




A greatsword is a large longsword. Ever heard of a halfing longsword? It's a shortsword.

Dec 8, 2012 -- 4:39PM, StevenO wrote:

I also have some pretty serious doubts about getting a weapon that deals "normal" damage and has a threat range of 13-20/x4.  Perhaps you would be so kind as to show how an 19-20/x2 weapon goes to that?  Please note the source of anything that isn't in the PHB to make verification easier.




No problem.

Greatsword, weighted 80 gp 1d12 2d8 18-20/x2. This is under martial weapons, under the category of swords. This comes from Arms and Armor v3.5. The specific entry is on page 21.

Laminated Steel
Weapons
Laminated steel weapons are forged by a special
process that involves multiple layers of steel being
bonded by softer and more pliable metals, such as
nickel. These layers are then welded and folded
several times over. This produces a fine cutting
edge unmatched by any other mundane forging
process. However, it take a great deal of time to
construct weapons in this way. Only slashing
weapons may be made from laminated steel. A
laminated steel weapon gains a +1 circumstance
bonus to damage rolls and has its threat range
increased by one.
Laminated Steel Weapon: +900 gp

That's from page 41 of More Ultimate Equipment. So now our weighted greatsword has 17-20.


Kaorti items are all constructed from the resin their palms secrete. In most campaigns involving the kaorti, the creation of resin weapons doesn't become an issue because the kaorti normally serve as enemies of the player characters. However, a few kaorti turn rogue and seek to find a home within the world, and others would like to wield the powerful ribbon weapons that they find.


Weapons made from kaorti resin require the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat to wield, and each must be specific to each ribbon weapon. For example, if the character acquires one of the ribbon longswords of wounding wielded by the Guardians of Gloom and Despair, she must take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (longsword) feat. If she has acquired a ribbon dagger also, she must take the dagger version of the feat as well.


Making magical versions of kaorti items is possible. The item maker must use resin it has excreted itself, and also must have the appropriate craft skill and item creations feats. Kaorti resin is particularly suitable for bladed weapons such as daggers and swords. Any resin item must be made as a masterwork item. A resin piercing or slashing weapon has a critical multiple of x4.

The article is here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/200...

You can find more on Kaorti on page 110 of The Fiend Folio.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 7:36PM #19
draco1119
  • California Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,815
You're fighting out of your weight class on this one, dood. I'm going to enjoy ripping that post apart in a few hours. However, on the assumption that someone beats me to it...

*grabs popcorn*

I'm going to enjoy watching this Gangnam-style Internet smackdown.

*whispers an aside to adjacent spectator*
Think he's willing to admit when he's wrong, or is he going to be like a certain someone we all know and, ahem, love?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same.  If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter."  -Condoleezza Rice

"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever.  Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan

This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 7:53PM #20
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 274
Ill be the aside and return "I'm aware we don't all play apparently tier one shrodingers"
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