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Switch to Forum Live View Asking for optimization help Duskblade.
7 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:30PM #21
draco1119
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Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 14,300
@ff: I wasn't talking about him. I was referring to a certain someone over in PE General that has managed to make several people's "Ignore" list. In fact, I think in most of those cases, he IS the Ignore list.
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7 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:43PM #22
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 286
@draco1119: woops my bad, thought it was someone else. Sorry for the mix up
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7 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:47PM #23
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,809
Did someone call me?

Wow. Look, Zaramon, you need to understant something. A greatsword is a two-handed weapon. Period. Those are the rules. Now, circumstances can occur that allow you to wield a two-handed weapon one-handed. That does not change that a two-handed weapon is two-handed. Now, if this doesn't convince you, I'm going to let someone else have the honors. Too tired and lazy. But, really, you're missing something much more simple and much, much more important:

Fighting with oversized weapons sucks. Hard. Like, so far beyond awful, I lack the vocabulary to effectively describe it without comparing it negatively to Truenamer or Weapon Specialization.

Oh, and third party stuff ain't cool. And pumping out four digit damage at level 11+ is so easy, making 100-ish isn't something to be impressed about.

@OP: Duskblade really is inferior to some simple options. However, if you're dead-set on duskblade, I'd suggest something like Duskblade 7/Divine Crusader 2/Mystic Theurge 1/Contemplative 1/Mystic Theurge +9. For domains, I'd recommend Spell and, I dunno, maybe Travel. You really need Power Attack and Versatile Spellcaster.

Now, don't purchase anything on that gear list other than Belt of Battle. Most of it is awful. And I mean really awful.
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7 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 8:51PM #24
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,334

Dec 8, 2012 -- 7:20PM, Zaramon wrote:

Dec 8, 2012 -- 4:39PM, StevenO wrote:

NO.  The feat does NOT work the way you think it does.  Monkey Grip allow you (a medium sized creature) to wield a large longsword with one hand.  A large longsword is NOT the same as a medium sized greatsword even if they have stats that look almost identical.




2d6, 19-20, x2, 8 lbs, required two-handed for medium creatures, martial weapon. Here, read it again.

For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat.  For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered a one-handed weapon.

See? Large longsword, one handed for a large creature, just like a greatsword, but it's two-handed for a medium sized creature. For something that doesn't have the feat. However, if you do have the feat, a large longsword, something ordinarily a two-handed weapon for a medium sized creature, becomes a one-handed weapon for a medium sized creature, if that medium sized creature has the feat. Straight-up RAW. You cannot argue this. It flat out says it, two-handed weapon becomes a one-handed weapon for a medium sized creature with this feat. Deal.


You're wrong but I can already sense a  who isn't going to listen to a thing he's told.  I think you should read up on what weapon size means and how it works.  Pay close attention to this section:

Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.


All Monkey Grip does is allow you to ignore that second paragraph when wielding a weapon a size larger.

 A greatsword is a large longsword. Ever heard of a halfing longsword? It's a shortsword.


Wrong and wrong.  A greatsword and large longsword share many of the same stats but the large longsword only costs 30 gp while a greatsword costs 50 gp.  A halfling (small) longsword?  It is a SLASHING weapon that deals 1d6 damage, cost 15gp, and weighs 2 lbs.  A shortsword?  Well it's a PIERCING weapon that deals 1d6 damage, cost 10gp, and weighs 2 lbs.  Oh yeh, those two items MUST BE THE SAME WEAPON despite doing different damage types and having different costs.

Dec 8, 2012 -- 4:39PM, StevenO wrote:

I also have some pretty serious doubts about getting a weapon that deals "normal" damage and has a threat range of 13-20/x4.  Perhaps you would be so kind as to show how an 19-20/x2 weapon goes to that?  Please note the source of anything that isn't in the PHB to make verification easier.


No problem.

Greatsword, weighted 80 gp 1d12 2d8 18-20/x2. This is under martial weapons, under the category of swords. This comes from Arms and Armor v3.5. The specific entry is on page 21.

Laminated Steel...

That's from page 41 of More Ultimate Equipment. So now our weighted greatsword has 17-20.


Kaorti items are all constructed from the resin their palms secrete. ...


Weapons made from kaorti resin ....


You're "no problem" has a few big ones.  For starters Arms & Equipment is a 3.0 book so that may void your weighted greatsword.

Next, your "More Ultimate Equipment" is NOT an "official" sourcebook so that kicks out your Laminated Steel.  Now even if I didn't dismiss it for that I'm not going to let you build an item out of two different materials (your Kaorti and laminated steel) and gain the benefit from both.  I also like how you are using something from a "bonus EPIC Encounter" to enhance something for a 13th-level character.

When two out of three of your sources don't count and the third one comes from an epic source I'll say your weapon also gets an epic fail.  Perhaps you want you use the Katana which a fanboy put up on the DnD wiki instead because treating it as a masterwork bastard sword as mentioned in the DMG just isn't good enough for the greatest swrod ever made by man.

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7 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 6:18AM #25
Scythal
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2012
Posts: 36
Back on topic, if you want a two weapons fighting duskblade, you can go Ranger 2, duskblade 13, anything full BAB 5 or the classic swordsage 2/bloodclaw master2 X+1 (Originaly, it was a valenar elf who will become revenant blade 5 in the near futur, but since you're human...).
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7 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 6:32AM #26
Azoriel
Date Joined: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 37

Dec 8, 2012 -- 8:47PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Now, don't purchase anything on that gear list other than Belt of Battle. Most of it is awful. And I mean really awful.




Seriously?  o.O  The Shadow Cloak is one of the few places you can get teleportation as an immediate action outside of a level of Conjurer.  (Come to think of it, I can't think up with any others off of the top of my head.)  That's automatic attack dodging three times a day.  Heward's Handy Haversack is like a bag of holding that actively helps you find what you're looking for.  Heck, even Hand of Glory isn't bad if you want to wear more than two rings pre-epic and you don't have the feats available for Extra Rings.  (Not that that's really a benefit until his character actually has some rings.)  These aren't the greatest items in the game, but it's certainly a far cry from awful (particularly those first two).

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7 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 8:45AM #27
Jackrub
Date Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Posts: 16
I got most of the magic items from http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851  [3.5] Lists of Necessary Magic Items

If you have better ideas of a item list please post them that is why I asked for help.   Sorry about the bold.
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7 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:14AM #28
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,809

Dec 9, 2012 -- 6:18AM, Scythal wrote:

Back on topic, if you want a two weapons fighting duskblade, you can go Ranger 2, duskblade 13, anything full BAB 5 or the classic swordsage 2/bloodclaw master2 X+1 (Originaly, it was a valenar elf who will become revenant blade 5 in the near futur, but since you're human...).


Ignore this. TWF is so far beyond garbage it compares favorably to Skill Focus (Speak Language) outside of twin Kukri builds.

Dec 9, 2012 -- 6:32AM, Azoriel wrote:

Dec 8, 2012 -- 8:47PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Now, don't purchase anything on that gear list other than Belt of Battle. Most of it is awful. And I mean really awful.


Seriously?  o.O  The Shadow Cloak is one of the few places you can get teleportation as an immediate action outside of a level of Conjurer.  (Come to think of it, I can't think up with any others off of the top of my head.)  That's automatic attack dodging three times a day.  Heward's Handy Haversack is like a bag of holding that actively helps you find what you're looking for.


Automatic dodging, assuming the opponent doesn't have reach. Or decides to use a five-foot step during a full-attack. Situational at best/

Heck, even Hand of Glory isn't bad if you want to wear more than two rings pre-epic and you don't have the feats available for Extra Rings.  


Yes it is really that bad. It became totally useless once the good ol' MIC gave us combining rules.

(Not that that's really a benefit until his character actually has some rings.)  These aren't the greatest items in the game, but it's certainly a far cry from awful (particularly those first two).


Yes, they are really that bad.

Dec 9, 2012 -- 8:45AM, Jackrub wrote:

I got most of the magic items from http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851  [3.5] Lists of Necessary Magic Items

If you have better ideas of a item list please post them that is why I asked for help.   Sorry about the bold.


Where is your Third Eye Freedom? Attach it to your Third Eye(Clarity). Where is your Corsair's Eyepatch or Scout?

Why in Boccob's name are you using Eternal Wands like that? Eternal Wands should only be used on all-day buffs, and only ones that you will use every day. Wands are almost always cheaper.

Horn of Plenty? Should really only be used if actually being optimized. ToUF? No. Just no. 

Where are your stat items? 

Basically, your equipment is all over the place. That is bad. Being good at something is expensive. What you should do is get a couple of relatively cheap situational protections, maybe some staples, and then focus on one or two things and be very good at them.

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7 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:38AM #29
Jackrub
Date Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Posts: 16
We arn't allowed to get consumables otherwise I would have gotten regualr wands.  How do you attach a third eye freedom to a 3rd eye(clarity)?
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7 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:45AM #30
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,809

Dec 9, 2012 -- 10:38AM, Jackrub wrote:

We arn't allowed to get consumables otherwise I would have gotten regualr wands.  How do you attach a third eye freedom to a 3rd eye(clarity)?


MiC, page 210, IIRC. Or is it 214? Either way, there are rules for combining magic items.

I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.

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