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Switch to Forum Live View Asking for optimization help Duskblade.
6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 12:35PM #1
Jackrub
Date Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Posts: 16
I have been invited into a D &D 3.5 game however I have been given limitations on my build by the DM.  Normally I would make a wizard because they are great and I know how to optimize, but good optimizer can work with limitations.

However a great optimizer asks other optimizers for help.

The limitations are
Str 18
Dex 7
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 11
Cha 7

Lvl 13
Alignment CG
Race Dragonblooded of Bahamut (Human. dragonblooded)
Class Duskblade

You have 8 points to spend on stats through normal point-buy
110000 gp for buying equipment no comsumibles

We are allow to use any books however once the game starts we can't bring in any new book.  The world will be built according to with books we use.  I have already read Dictum Mortuum's handbook it is good, but I want a second opionion.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 2:28PM #2
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,085

Dec 8, 2012 -- 12:35PM, Jackrub wrote:


The limitations are
Str 18
Dex 7
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 11
Cha 7

Lvl 13
Alignment CG
Race Dragonblooded of Bahamut (Human. dragonblooded)
Class Duskblade

You have 8 points to spend on stats through normal point-buy
110000 gp for buying equipment no comsumibles



What kind of "limitations" are those?  I see AMAZING stats already and it seems you're saying you can boost them even higher.  Your equipment value is right in line with what 13th-level character SHOULD have although I think he's being a little hard when it comes to consumables although I know why they are sometimes limited.

Now it has been a while since I've looked at the Duskblade and while I enjoy using it to meet spellcasting prereqs for martial PrC when needed I believe that if you're actually going to "play" a Duskblade you don't need to do any multiclassing; at least not very early.
 

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 2:46PM #3
Zaramon
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1,426
What exactly is the goal with this duskblade? Typical gish fun? Because I know this great duskblade cheese that lets you do 100ish damage by level 11. It involves scorching ray, blood blade, metamagic, spell storing, and two-handed power attacks. Also, can you use laminated Kaorti weapons?

I would strongly recommend something that looks like this: Duskblade 7/Abjurant Champion 5/Exotic Weapon Master 1. For EWM, take the stunt that lets you get double strength mod to damage when you wield a one-handed exotic weapon two-handed. Get a laminated Kaorti Weighted Greatsword (Kaorti turns the weapon into an exotic weapon, and gives it a x4 crit mod. Laminated is a simple 1 point increase in threat range that stacks with all other threat range increases.

It's from a Wizard's article but also in a book somewhere, forget which, Google can tell you.) Weighted Greatsword is in Arms and Armor v3.5. 18-20 crit change, 2d8 base damage. Making it out of kaorti turns it into an exotic weapon, take the proficiency feat and then take monkey grip, proceed to wield two-handed. Make it keen or take improved critical. Pick up deathstrike bracers from the magic item compendium. Combine with earlier listed magic tricks. Proceed to destroy ****.

Weapon will be 2d8, double strength mod, 13-20 critical threat range, x4 crit damage, and the deathstrike bracers let you crit stuff you can't normally crit, three times a day. Combining this with power attack is beastly, especially when mixed with certain spells, given the situation. This build is kind of cheesy, and some DMs will pretty much just auto-veto this. The weighted greatsword alone is pretty awesome.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:06PM #4
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,085
Zaramon, Abjurant Champion is NOT something a Duskblade should really work towards.  For most other gish builds AbC is a must but it really doesn't add all that much to the Duskblade as DB already has a full BAB and gets full casting.  I don't recall which Abjuration spells a DB gets but aside from the one round Deflects most of them don't gain a lot from AbC.  I'll also point out that you probably want to get to DB13 so you can Channel with full attack.

You should also double check what Monkey Grip does.  It DOES NOT let you wield a Greatsword with one hand.  You still need two hands to wield a greatsword although MonkeyGrip would let you wield a LARGE Greatsword with two hands.  I'd also caution you on spending too many feat trying to become "the guy with a massive super sword," because as far as game mechanics go it usually is NOT benefical.
 
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:09PM #5
draco1119
  • California Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,913
What StevenO said. Sorry; I've never played a Duskblade, but "guy using a Cloud sword" tends to suck hard.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:13PM #6
Jackrub
Date Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Posts: 16
It's not so much limitations so much as I have never played a dusk blade or any other gish class I allways go full marshal or full caster so I don't know the trick for making gish work.  I always though they are underpowered.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:28PM #7
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,085
To make the Duskblade work I believe it is all about how well you can channel your spells into your attacks.  That's a big part of why you want to get DB 13 so you can take a spell and have it boost a full attack's worth of attacks.

As for a gish being underpowered it all depends on your reference points.  I also depends on how you want to define a gish because there are MANY way to build a character who can use arcane magic and still fight with weapons.  I mean you have some "gish" characters that are mostly spellcasters (admittedly a level or two behind a focused caster and probably without all the focus) that are a bit tougher physically then most casters but still have more then enough magic to "handle" most non-casters.  At the other end you can have some gish characters that are mostly warrior types but who may have a small amount of spellcasting that they can use for various things.  I mentioned using Duskblade as a common way to meet PrC arcane casting requirements and an example of that is just taking a level or two of DB to pick up True Strike and then going into DragonDisciple.
 
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:29PM #8
draco1119
  • California Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,913
They are far from underpowered. They're usually not as good as a full caster, but they're better than pretty much any non-caster, if done correctly. So what restrictions are there, exactly? I'm afb right now, but would something like Goliath barbarian 1/Duskblade X/Rage Mage 1 work? I know the Rage Mage lets you cast while raging, and the Goliath would let you use a big friggin' sword.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:35PM #9
Zaramon
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1,426
I didn't realize duskblade got full caster level. I recommended abjurant champion for that reason, and the arcane boost class feature. Gives you a lot of extra power and versatility. Monkey grip lets you wield two-handed weapons one-handed. Here's the feat.

You can use melee weapons one size category
larger than you are with a –2 penalty on the attack roll, but
the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does
not change. For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed
weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed
weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat.
For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered
a one-handed weapon.

If you have the feat, a large longsword, ordinarily a two-handed weapon, counts as a one-handed weapon.

I forgot about the full attack channel for the duskblade, but the laminated kaorti weapon is the way to go, if the DM will allow it. x4 crit and 13-20 is awesome. I said weighted greatsword because it's a two-handed weapon with 18-20. I suppose you could just as easily go falchion.

Only reason I'm advocating for a two-handed weapon at all is because of the high strength and power attack. This is why I asked about what he wanted for the duskblade in the first place. I just assumed damage.

Dec 8, 2012 -- 3:09PM, draco1119 wrote:

What StevenO said. Sorry; I've never played a Duskblade, but "guy using a Cloud sword" tends to suck hard.




Depends on how you do it. Fighter 8, barbarian 1, frenzied berserker 10, Exotic Weapon Master 1, Laminated Kaorti Weighted Greatsword. With all the other gear and the rest of the feats, you will be hitting for 200ish damage, without making any kind of use of power attack whatsoever, per attack. Get the impaling quality on the sword, and deathstrike bracers, and you can do full power attacks for truly asinine amounts of damage. Combine it with the combat brute and momentum swing, and you can deal over 1k damage on a single attack.

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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 3:43PM #10
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,085
Draco, you should know better then to suggest Rage Mage!  At least unless you know of a version other then the CW's one which I'll say SUCKS with a d8HD, 3/4BAB and half casting.  Also note that it can only cast spell during one of the PrC's special Rages and still can't cast spells during any normal rage.  Now if RM had a full BAB and d10 HD I'd start considering it but it still wouldn't be a "goto" class for any gish of mine.

When it comes to gish characters you have your mostly marshal types like the Duskblade but if you want "true" spellcasting potential then you probably want to go with a BattleSorcerer (UA/SRD) or a multiclass build using Wizard or Sorcerer.

One comment about any gish character is that most of them still don't use a lot of armor.  If you have DEX 7 you're probably going to be wearing heavier armors and that is going to hinder your spellcasting.  I know there are ways a character can cast in full plate armor but I'd set my sights a lot lower and usually go with some kind of light armor; several classes let you cast in light armor without ASF and that can be improved to medium with a feat while other classes/thing will lower the ASF outright.
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