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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 11:17AM
#31
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Ability score prereqs, and alignment screwjobs. Also this: class system relying on mechanical representation of story elements, rather than class system providing role elements without story ties.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 11:35AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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I would phrase the question differently: as someone that is quite happy with 4e, What in DDN makes me want to buy it?
As of right now, nothing. For people that feel that 4e was the best mechanically designed edition, DDN doesn't really build on it, but rather poaches a measly few innovations from the many to graft onto a framework of wonky math and otherwise bad design.
What's hilarious reading this thread is it's essentially the same argument I made in the first week of the playtest: fans of the editions have fundamentally different interests, many of which are mutually exclusive. No amount of modules can fix funadamentally different design goals baked into the base rules.
It seems like DDN is meant to be the political edition: striving to make each player group minimally dissatisfied, hehe!
I don't think this was ever disputed. I've said from day 1 that what WotC SHOULD do is release a pre3rd, 3rd (or buy Paizo), and 4th edition lines simultaneously, thereby pleasing everyone. The odds of making a single version that even a portion of each group would play is roughly equivalent to rolling exactly a 19.73 on 2 standard 6-sided dice.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 11:51AM
#33
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I would phrase the question differently: as someone that is quite happy with 4e, What in DDN makes me want to buy it?
As of right now, nothing. For people that feel that 4e was the best mechanically designed edition, DDN doesn't really build on it, but rather poaches a measly few innovations from the many to graft onto a framework of wonky math and otherwise bad design.
What's hilarious reading this thread is it's essentially the same argument I made in the first week of the playtest: fans of the editions have fundamentally different interests, many of which are mutually exclusive. No amount of modules can fix funadamentally different design goals baked into the base rules.
It seems like DDN is meant to be the political edition: striving to make each player group minimally dissatisfied, hehe!
I don't think this was ever disputed. I've said from day 1 that what WotC SHOULD do is release a pre3rd, 3rd (or buy Paizo), and 4th edition lines simultaneously, thereby pleasing everyone. The odds of making a single version that even a portion of each group would play is roughly equivalent to rolling exactly a 19.73 on 2 standard 6-sided dice.
WotC claims to believe that it is possible, though there actions put some doubt on that claim.
...whatever
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 12:39PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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I would phrase the question differently: as someone that is quite happy with 4e, What in DDN makes me want to buy it?
As of right now, nothing. For people that feel that 4e was the best mechanically designed edition, DDN doesn't really build on it, but rather poaches a measly few innovations from the many to graft onto a framework of wonky math and otherwise bad design.
What's hilarious reading this thread is it's essentially the same argument I made in the first week of the playtest: fans of the editions have fundamentally different interests, many of which are mutually exclusive. No amount of modules can fix funadamentally different design goals baked into the base rules.
It seems like DDN is meant to be the political edition: striving to make each player group minimally dissatisfied, hehe!
I don't think this was ever disputed. I've said from day 1 that what WotC SHOULD do is release a pre3rd, 3rd (or buy Paizo), and 4th edition lines simultaneously, thereby pleasing everyone. The odds of making a single version that even a portion of each group would play is roughly equivalent to rolling exactly a 19.73 on 2 standard 6-sided dice.
WotC claims to believe that it is possible, though there actions put some doubt on that claim.
*shrug* I'm still here hoping; fool that I am. I won't have anything more concrete than hope until it's in my hands however.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 12:43PM
#35
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It's easy to have hope when 5E is more or less delivering the D&D you want at present.
...whatever
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 12:44PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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Vancian casting as the only casting system for the Wizard and others...
This.
That set of exclusive auto-success rules should have been excises and burned in hell a long time ago.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 12:48PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2012
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It's easy to have hope when 5E is more or less delivering the D&D you want at present.
Yep, I'm thrilled, though that last packet got a bit dodgy (classes).
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 12:57PM
#38
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Vancian casting as the only casting system for the Wizard and others...
Yes, WotC should have learned that only having one power system for classes was a big mistake.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
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Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 1:00PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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It's easy to have hope when 5E is more or less delivering the D&D you want at present.
Not so much really. 1st packet hinted at it. It's all been downhill since.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 06, 2012 - 1:05PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2012
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It's easy to have hope when 5E is more or less delivering the D&D you want at present.
Not so much really. 1st packet hinted at it. It's all been downhill since.
I agree, even the math was better.
It also had actual lore (the Bestiary).
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