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Switch to Forum Live View What in D&D Next right now would keep you from buying it?
6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 9:45PM #1
NightsLastHero
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 968
What in D&D Next right now would keep you from buying it if those elements remain at launch. You can expand this to what elements are not in D&D Next that would case you to not buy it or just any reason whatsoever that you won't buy it.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 9:50PM #2
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,730
Vancian casting as the only casting system for the Wizard and others...Smile
Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 9:52PM #3
bawylie
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Posts: 965
Booyaka to that.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 9:59PM #4
thecasualoblivion
Date Joined: Apr 1, 2007
Posts: 6,344
Ditto to Vancian, also:

the pervasive mundanity of the current rules

Fighters(and others) being limited to at-will abilities only

it being a hassle to remove/ignore rules regarding mechanical effects of allignment, rolled HP, and/or rolled stats.

It being covered in DM fiat to the degree it is currently.

Lack of tactical depth.

the overall system not being elegant or transparent 

the game being (un)balanced around the adventuring day
...whatever
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 10:03PM #5
rampant
Date Joined: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 8,021
my list has all of that but includes these additionals

the races being boring and unbalanced

ability caps

boring feats/specialties



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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 10:04PM #6
NightsLastHero
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 968
I honestly think the game assumes you don't roll stats as everything works out better (IMO) if you don't roll stats.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 10:18PM #7
Phoenix182
Date Joined: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 1,260
Obviously it's not even remotely done.  That's the biggest thing by far. It's about 15% of a game. Need full class selection, a couple more races wouldn't hurt (especially gnome, being such a long time staple), full equipment selection, complete rule sets, vastly wider spell selection with more explanation and parts (like components, traditions, etc), clear division between optional and reuqired components (backgrounds, skills, feats, etc being optional), adventure creation guidelines, needs at LEAST 20 levels of play (probably more like 30), optional rules modules for those that want them (map/minis, tactical combat, wild races and classes, etc), vastly wider monster selection, a bunch more besides. Until we see about 200-300 pages of material we know they're not even close to done.

Second biggest thing, for me, is that it's no where near that pre-3rd feel any more. 1st playtest packet hinted pretty well at it, but since then it's gone further and further from the 'old days'. Unless us pre-3rders can find 'our playstyle' with it, we won't buy it. We were promised it, same as everyone else, and we won't pay a dime unless they deliver pretty well. When me and my fellow grognards can sit down to a playtest and have a very similar experience to basic/1st/2nd play, then we'll be on board.

Personally I'm still not sold on some of the fairly major elements (like advantage/disadvantage, skill based rogue, etc) either, so we'll have to see a complete ruleset before we know if we're ok with it, if it can be removed without significant impact, etc.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.

WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 10:21PM #8
NightsLastHero
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 968
My problems right now are advantage/disadvantage . I wish it would just go away already. Skill mastery would be my other one but I know it is going away/getting altered.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 10:30PM #9
Chakravant
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2012
Posts: 1,814
The heavy reliance on DM Fiat.  Playing "DM may I" is no way to release a game.

Fluff and mechanics intertwined in the classes.  It seems like classes that DDN feels have a poor identity get new fluff stuck onto them and that new fluff used to justify a radical redirection of the class.

Modules, modules, modules.  Advanced modules that don't automatically assume gridded combat, 2E Skills and Powers point buys, and casting modules allowing different casting styles of the same class to coexist in harmony at the same table are all needed before I buy DDN.

Balancing around the "day" is old and busted.  We need new hotness.

Alignment needs to made completely optional to the point of not even being mentioned in any class section.

Feats need to be more like feats.  As it stands they are completely lackluster.  They also need ability, level, and class prerequisites removed completely.

Monster recharges just need to go away.  They are a crutch tacked on to monsters that can't be made unique or challenging enough in their own right, and such lazy design can't be good for the game as a whole.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 10:41PM #10
DanTracker
Date Joined: Jun 8, 2009
Posts: 876

My current non-buy-for-this-reason list is as follows (in random order):


  • lack of story-based reward for players; in other words, they are not being given XP, Action Point, Fairy Dust, etc. for playing out the story of their PCs' belief, dreams, goals, motivations, alignment, instincts, etc.
  • lack of campaign-altering authority for players; more specifically, a creation guide in the image of Dresden Files' A City Full of Problems subsection of City Creation chapter. Really, the whole chapter. (recognition is currently being afforded to D&D Next that this is not currently on the agenda while classes, races, monsters, and spells are more important issues.)
  • over-abundance of combat-related class features, combat-centric adventure-day designs (such as HD per day), and monster interaction mantra
  • feeble representation of three pillars in equal balance; by this I infer that exploration and interaction are not provided as much support as combat (if you subscribe to the three-pillars model described). As a point, there is not sufficient mechanical weight to the appropriate skills for exploration or interaction which a player or DM can rely upon to create reliable results and solid rulings. Furthermore, there is not sufficient mechanical reward to pursuing threads in exploration and interaction which a player or DM can use to deepen or enliven an adventure. Lastly, there is not sufficient mechanical benefit to pursuing threads in exploration and interaction which a player or DM can use to fulfill adventure objectives.
  • class system relying on mechanical representation of story elements, rather than class system providing role elements without story ties. This is possibly not an item which can be discussed, but I would prefer to see a class system which offers far less fluff and far more mechanical packaging that can be applied to player-built fluff. (e.g. Defender class is provided +n to defensive stats and given class-bound defensive features; player tells whether this is knight, paladin, cavalier, swashbuckler, warden, barbarian, etc. by way of personification, background, choice of weapons and armor, culture, equipment, religion, etc.) One might say I prefer fewer classes and hope those classes are not terms which may be applied by NPCs or PCs to describe themselves in-game.
  • over-reliance on existing canon; lack of innovative change-of-scenery with respect to time period analog, technology era analog, and more. I really want to play a fantasy world experiencing a different time in their history; currently, the mechanics rely upon narrative description within a similar time frame as has always been presented in D&D.
  • pandering to other playstyles; rude, but true. I feel the discussion from R&D via weekly articles does not open the discussion for changes I want to discuss. It doesn't present an open forum for presenting the sort of game I'd like D&D to evolve towards. As such, I feel R&D is pandering to another playstyle which excludes my interests. So, as I said, rude. I ought o have a more open mind, but I'm selfishly looking at this game lacking really interesting elements for me.
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