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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 7:39PM
#171
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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To me, the bloodline is a means to an end. The Sorcerer is a natural. A natural spellcaster.
The sorcerer didn't learn how to cast spell via arcane lore, science, and formula. A sorcerer was magical. Somehow the sorcerer could cast spells like monsters and certain races could. The sorcerer could be born with the ancestry of a naturally cating crerature. Or an natural or supernatural event could unlock or grant powers. Or a ritual could be done to imbue these powers.
The warlock is similiar. The main differences is the use of invocations. And the darker more hidden nature of invocations seem to force some sort of active explanar dealing at some point.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 8:13PM
#172
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I'm not familiar with PF, but I'm moderately certain they expand on this with Feats and Prestige Classes just like 3.X did.
From the Pathfinder Reference Document:
"Scions of innately magical bloodlines, the chosen of deities, the spawn of monsters, pawns of fate and destiny, or simply flukes of fickle magic, sorcerers look within themselves for arcane prowess and draw forth might few mortals can imagine. Emboldened by lives ever threatening to be consumed by their innate powers, these magic-touched souls endlessly indulge in and refine their mysterious abilities, gradually learning how to harness their birthright and coax forth ever greater arcane feats. Just as varied as these innately powerful spellcasters' abilities and inspirations are the ways in which they choose to utilize their gifts. While some seek to control their abilities through meditation and discipline, becoming masters of their fantastic birthright, others give in to their magic, letting it rule their lives with often explosive results. Regardless, sorcerers live and breathe that which other spellcasters devote their lives to mastering, and for them magic is more than a boon or a field of study; it is life itself."
I should have specified expanded on it mechanically. Sorry for the lack of precision.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 9:26PM
#173
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Date Joined:
Nov 12, 2012
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Simply put, to those who think that warlock doesn't warrant its own class: I can see the warlock vs. sorcerer debate. Here's the thing, though...the wizard is absorbing some of the spontaneous aspect of the sorcerer. Unless Mearls does a 360 and changes his mind, Wizards are going to prepare known spells for the day. However, a wizard can exhaust their 1st level spellcasting casting magic missile every single time if he/she wants to, while having other spells available at his/her disposal until they cast their last spell. So, the question is: If there is an alternative to the wizard, will it be Warlock or Sorcerer? I have seen the name sorcerer used interchangably with the wizard. I can't say the same with "Warlock". At will arcane power that is different than traditional spells gives Warlocks a unique identity apart from other casters.
Also, just because fey pact was introduced, doesn't mean it is "disney pact". Just because they tried something different and allowed the source of power to be something other than demonic, doesn't mean that they should revert to that traditional stereotype. I(and others) welcome different pacts and different sources of power.
To those who say that the warlock is inferior to the wizard and sorcerer: Maybe, while the wizard and sorcerer still have spells. HOWEVER, when both are out of spells(level 0 doesn't count), the Warlock is still very functionable. Even before this happens, though, the Warlock still does do quite formidable damage with eldritch blast and invocations. The flavor and fluff are something that the Wizard simply doesn't have, and will be greatly missed as well.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 9:54PM
#174
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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There is a rediculous amount of overlap between wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks, in that they ALL are pure arcane casters. In the past, what would separate them out was the casting style. With the intent of separating out casting style from class, this leaves a huge gaping hole in all of these classes. It is compounded by sorcerers and warlocks both being defined as "innate" casters. I would rather reorganize the crossover to keep each class distinct, regardless of the resulting name. In addition to the scholarly pursuit traditionally given to wizards, we have a precedence for a bloodline source and a pact source. The sorcerer has only ever been associated with bloodlines (but loosely, excluding Pathfinder), where warlocks have been associated with both.
For SO many reasons, I'd rather see a single magical class X that has a "source" of their power, and a "casting style" for resource management. Whether it is a school, bloodline, or pact, that is mostly fluff. I could have an elemental school, bloodline, or pact, and they could be indistinguishable from each other. And illusionist or enchanter could also be from a fey bloodline or pact. Doesn't it stand to reason then, that simply supplying a large list of features, a player could build their own caster, or pick from some prebuilts that resemble the schools, bloodlines, or pacts of previous editions?
Magic Dual Color Test
Show
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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:00PM
#175
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Date Joined:
May 22, 2003
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There is a rediculous amount of overlap between wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks, in that they ALL are pure arcane casters. In the past, what would separate them out was the casting style. With the intent of separating out casting style from class, this leaves a huge gaping hole in all of these classes. It is compounded by sorcerers and warlocks both being defined as "innate" casters. I would rather reorganize the crossover to keep each class distinct, regardless of the resulting name. In addition to the scholarly pursuit traditionally given to wizards, we have a precedence for a bloodline source and a pact source. The sorcerer has only ever been associated with bloodlines (but loosely, excluding Pathfinder), where warlocks have been associated with both.
+1
For SO many reasons, I'd rather see a single magical class X that has a "source" of their power, and a "casting style" for resource management. Whether it is a school, bloodline, or pact, that is mostly fluff. I could have an elemental school, bloodline, or pact, and they could be indistinguishable from each other. And illusionist or enchanter could also be from a fey bloodline or pact. Doesn't it stand to reason then, that simply supplying a large list of features, a player could build their own caster, or pick from some prebuilts that resemble the schools, bloodlines, or pacts of previous editions?
What would we call it?
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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:15PM
#176
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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A half-way decent idea that won't fly because it's not DnD enough?
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7 months ago ::
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:19PM
#177
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Date Joined:
May 22, 2003
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A half-way decent idea that won't fly because it's not DnD enough?
LOL Best. Name. Ever.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 5:13AM
#178
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From what I understand, invocations are not on the same list as spells. They have lesser effects and are designed to be use both frequently and quickly. It is a separate aspect of the game as a fighter's combat ability to a wizard's spells. There is no overlap. Invocations and Spells sound like they are going back to being separate things like 3.5.
This is good! 
So... someone else says exactly what I've been trying to point out the entire time and suddenly you're on board? Frustrating, but I'll take it.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 5:18AM
#179
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Date Joined:
May 22, 2003
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From what I understand, invocations are not on the same list as spells. They have lesser effects and are designed to be use both frequently and quickly. It is a separate aspect of the game as a fighter's combat ability to a wizard's spells. There is no overlap. Invocations and Spells sound like they are going back to being separate things like 3.5.
This is good!
So... someone else says exactly what I've been trying to point out the entire time and suddenly you're on board? Frustrating, but I'll take it.
If this was the whole of your point then I completely missed it. 
Eh, the internetz aren't always conducive to perfect communication. -- Reading, writing, being denied the ability to emote, carrying on multiple threads of conversation at once, etc. Much gets lost in translation.
But, your page! I'm there! 
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7 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 6:35AM
#180
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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It's unique mechanics that warrant a separate class, not unique fluff.
So its 2 classes total.. 3 if you count the hybrid. Martial, Caster and Hybrid.... just like it all started.
I prefer Martial, Magical, and Mixed
Wait, wait. How about "Mixed, Martial, Arts"?!
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