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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 7:45AM
#91
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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I agree with Gilbert and Wrecan.
Clearly the 5e design team might feel differently, along with a lot of D&D players.
If a lot of people really cared about the Celestial Archons, they've been really quiet.
We only had "angel-angels" in 4e. In 1e they had no overarching name for celestials that served as deific servitors. In 2e they were called aasimon. In 3e they were called angels. But that was an overarching name, with Solars, Planetars, various Devas, etc.
Are you very familiar with previous editions' material on the various outsiders?
I'm very familiar with it. I just don't care.
"People want balance but can't accept this homogenization that occurs as a result of that balance being implemented. then they complain that the fighter is weaker than the wizard ad nauseam.: - Teitan
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 7:49AM
#92
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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I would like add a thing...
Let´s imagine the Heaven - Hell war like a war between secret agencies, with spies and infiltrators..
And some devils really are outsider eladrines infriltrators... maybe are too honorable to be evil (they don´t sacrifice innocents if it isn´t necesary), but too tainted to be accepted by their folk. They would a curious variant of "fallen angel".
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 10:04AM
#93
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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TIn the core products, the monsters need to be defined in terms of what they can do, what their place is on the prime material plane, and how they might interact with PCs.
I think that is a fantastic way to put it. Let the Manual of the Plane offer the Blood War, Dawn War, greek Theomachia, Milton-esque Fall of Angels, and others as options for a cosmological background. Let the main game set forth the creatures as they interact with adventurers (whether as adversaries, allies, or advisors). Give hints of these things thatwill be found in the Manual of the Planes, just as the playtest packet currently lists various pantheons of gods in descrbing clerical domains.
These are excellent ideas. I would like to subscribe to your newsletters.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 2:22PM
#94
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2004
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If a lot of people really cared about the Celestial Archons, they've been really quiet.
I think it's more that they've been drowned out by the more vocal haters
For me, the Archon's of Mount Celestia are one of my favourite groups of outsider, even though I don't get the chance to use them as often as I might a devil, demon, or elemental.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 2:33PM
#95
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Does anyone know where the word "eladrin" came from in the first place?
You'd have to ask Rich Baker, as he wrote the Planescape Monstrous Compendium II, which is where they were first written up in 2e.
WOW. Just WOW.
Even though this is a meta question I never thought a Planes related question could not be answered by Shemeska the Marauder.
Indeed a planar conjunction must be occuring.
CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production.
D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 2:34PM
#96
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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If a lot of people really cared about the Celestial Archons, they've been really quiet.
I think it's more that they've been drowned out by the more vocal haters
For me, the Archon's of Mount Celestia are one of my favourite groups of outsider, even though I don't get the chance to use them as often as I might a devil, demon, or elemental.
That is pretty spot on.
CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production.
D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 2:36PM
#97
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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If a lot of people really cared about the Celestial Archons, they've been really quiet.
I think it's more that they've been drowned out by the more vocal haters
For me, the Archon's of Mount Celestia are one of my favourite groups of outsider, even though I don't get the chance to use them as often as I might a devil, demon, or elemental.
That is pretty spot on.
So then one of the missions of the Next MM should be to help DMs find ways to use such creatures. Even something as simple as some examples of how and why they would get involved with mortal affairs would be great.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 4:54PM
#98
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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If a lot of people really cared about the Celestial Archons, they've been really quiet.
I think it's more that they've been drowned out by the more vocal haters
For me, the Archon's of Mount Celestia are one of my favourite groups of outsider, even though I don't get the chance to use them as often as I might a devil, demon, or elemental.
That is pretty spot on.
So then one of the missions of the Next MM should be to help DMs find ways to use such creatures. Even something as simple as some examples of how and why they would get involved with mortal affairs would be great.
I agree, some guidance would be nice. And I love the celestial archons. They're some of my favourite entries in the manuals and I do my best to get them in play when I can.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 10:44PM
#99
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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Yeah, I really like keeping the idea of Celestial Archons. Anyone else read A Wizard is You? Duke is pure awesome.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 07, 2012 - 11:00PM
#100
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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If a lot of people really cared about the Celestial Archons, they've been really quiet.
I think it's more that they've been drowned out by the more vocal haters
For me, the Archon's of Mount Celestia are one of my favourite groups of outsider, even though I don't get the chance to use them as often as I might a devil, demon, or elemental.
That is pretty spot on.
So then one of the missions of the Next MM should be to help DMs find ways to use such creatures. Even something as simple as some examples of how and why they would get involved with mortal affairs would be great.
Hopefully with that comes an unique position in the cosmos. I mean, we can give general advice for how to use LG outsiders, but I'd like the Archon to have a strong identity that generates interesting plot hooks by itself.
"People want balance but can't accept this homogenization that occurs as a result of that balance being implemented. then they complain that the fighter is weaker than the wizard ad nauseam.: - Teitan
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