|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 1:17AM
#31
|
Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
|
To be honest, you are the first person I have ever seen care about Elves and longswords. They're always overshadowed by bows, in my experience. I didn't even notice that the current playtest packet included them until I went to check just now. I had also completely forgotten that they got them back in 3.5 until I also went to check just now. I was hoping to come back and say "What? Longswords aren't important to Elves at all. They don't get anything with them now, only Eladrin got them in 4E, and they didn't get them in 3E!" but it looks like I've just been the one overlooking them this whole time.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 1:25AM
#32
|
Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
|
Elves with longswords were better in 2nd ed!!!
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 1:59AM
#33
|
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2008
|
To be honest, you are the first person I have ever seen care about Elves and longswords. They're always overshadowed by bows, in my experience. I didn't even notice that the current playtest packet included them until I went to check just now. I had also completely forgotten that they got them back in 3.5 until I also went to check just now. I was hoping to come back and say "What? Longswords aren't important to Elves at all. They don't get anything with them now, only Eladrin got them in 4E, and they didn't get them in 3E!" but it looks like I've just been the one overlooking them this whole time.
They didn't get them in 3e?
"Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Eapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow) and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. Elves esteem the arts of swordplay and archery..."
That isn't in my PHB for 3e, right?
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 2:16AM
#34
|
Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
|
Huh? No, I mean that's what I was hoping to come back here and say, but then I looked it up and realized that I had just been overlooking it this whole time.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 4:11AM
#35
|
Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
|
And yet, you're using the very same argument!
Uh, no? I'm saying that the default should be a form that we can both use to create the characters that we each want to create without requiring any house rules. By having no penalties, I can select to have my Halfling be a competant Barbarian just like I want by putting a high score in Strength, and you can have your Halfling by a feeble weakling just like you want by putting a low score in Strength. We can both play exactly what we want, and there's no house-ruling required.
Yes, you are. The other poster was discussing racial limits as RAW, the way they were in older editions. You want your way to be default and racial limits as house-ruling. It is the same argument.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 6:09AM
#36
|
|
|
I like the (eventual) heavy modularization of races in Pathfinder. (In the "things can be swapped in and out" sense of the term, not the D&DN "this game will be everything to everybody" sense.) It allows for building in a huge number of classic and novel elements for races without making race a source of just jillions of random bonuses.
I also generally like 4e's strategy of fewer more high-impact benefits, rather than a large number of lower-impact benefits. Not even counting things like languages and favored class, 3.5 Gnomes have over a dozen modifiers, and one of them, Small size, is actually a big package of modifiers. This is true of all abilities, but I think racial abilities need to pay special attention to their complexity:splashiness ratio. An example of going a little bit too far off of the map with that sort of thing is Stonecunning; Stonecunning is actually four related abilities, and they're all really minor. (Please not that I'm not saying that stonecunning is useless, just the abilities are very minor.) It's a very fine-grained ability. (It's my experience that most player/DM combos go on sprees of remembering that Stonecunning is a thing and applying it all over the place and then just kind of forgetting about it for a while.)
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 6:31AM
#37
|
Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
|
God I hated Ability score penalties. Made about as much sense in a FRPG as penalties based on Gender. Actually, the way they are now in D&DN isn't that bad. Sure specific bonuses do make better combinations for certain classes, but I never saw that as a bad thing.
Also humans in 4E were bad?! Really? Funny thing is most of the Char_Ops boards listed the race as good for any class
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:04AM
#38
|
Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
|
Would it be so truly bad if we completely dropped ability score adjustments from races? They wreak havoc on point buy systems, especially when we are using the (score/2-5) mechanic. I truly wish they would make the odd scores more relevant, but I doubt that is possible anymore in this edition.
Magic Dual Color Test
Show
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 11:33AM
#39
|
Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
|
The other poster was discussing racial limits as RAW, the way they were in older editions. You want your way to be default and racial limits as house-ruling. It is the same argument.
It is not the same argument at all, because I'm not imposing any limits or any style on anybody. I'm asking that everybody be able to play however they prefer to play by default. Both of us could play our own ways. If you don't understand the difference between "The default should be limited to how I want to play" and "The default should be more open so we can all play what we want to play", then I don't know what else to tell you.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 12:20PM
#40
|
Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
|
God I hated Ability score penalties. Made about as much sense in a FRPG as penalties based on Gender. Actually, the way they are now in D&DN isn't that bad. Sure specific bonuses do make better combinations for certain classes, but I never saw that as a bad thing. Also humans in 4E were bad?! Really? Funny thing is most of the Char_Ops boards listed the race as good for any class
Human sucked when 4th ed came out. They got better as more feats and at will were added to the game and essentials gave them a racial power. They were good at everythign but rarely the best. Elves and Dragonborn were the best races when the 4th ed PHB came out.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
|
|
|
