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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 1:10PM
#171
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2007
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In regards to Rogues. Mearls said Rogue's Sneak attack will be more damage than a Deadly Strike. Good news.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 1:13PM
#172
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Power swapping also got to make a kind of lousy first impression in the PHB because the tapestry of classes wasn't very well filled-in, so the number of reasonable targets for power swapping was really low. You're looking for something that runs off of your primary or secondary stat and that preferably (especially after a few levels) uses the same weapon/weapons/implement you're using. That meant that in most cases you're really just looking at utility powers and maybe powers from one or two other classes. While feats were relatively less precious with just core (simply because there were fewer awesome things to pick), in general spending a feat gets you a boost. Spending a feat on a power swap gets you a trade. The trade has to be really advantageous for that to be worth it, and the PHB wasn't well-set-up with with very many impressive trades.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 1:20PM
#173
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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First impression are hard to get over and Powerswapping as far as ONLY the PHB goes is bad if your not basing your attacks off of Strength. Try power-swapping from a Con-lock or a Chaladin and you're pretty much boned. But as the system grew, it became a much better way of taking in elements of certain classes to add to your own. Almost EVERY class has at least a few levels of crappy or mediocre powers. Take my Genasi Taclord, he'll probably be getting a Wizard encounter power swap feat at 8th level bcause most of the Warlord powers at 7th level for Taclords are..........uninspiring to me. But anyways, lets hope they hash out some sort of system that melds the good ideas of Multi-Dual classing but not allow in the bad.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 3:15PM
#174
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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Not sure 100% on this but even early on in 4h ed (when I actually cared about it circ 2008) I thought the power swap feats were awful.
They were perhaps over-cautious in design. Powers turned out to be pretty well-balanced, so swapping in a power was hardly worth a feat, most of the time. Theoretically, Controller powers, which comprised too much of their role support, should have been tempting to swap in - get the higher hps and other features of a striker or defender or leader, swap in the controller powers - but I never saw it happen.
Racial, Skill and Theme power-swapps proved not to be a balance issue, as well. Were WotC not taking such a scorched-earth policy against 4e in designing 5e, they could have done well to allow MC power-swapping without feat cost.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:31PM
#175
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... because tradition ...
... valid...
Agreed.
edit:
And 5E fails, gets shelved, and you can say bye bye to any new D&D things that aren't action figures or cartoons...have fun...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:38PM
#176
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Not sure 100% on this but even early on in 4h ed (when I actually cared about it circ 2008) I thought the power swap feats were awful. You more or less had to find another power that worked off your primary stat (strength really in the PHB) and the same implement. THe power you were swapping for did not usually offer any advantages over a power you already had. Put sumply you would be better off just spending that feat on something else even if it was just the toughness feat or leather armor for wizards.
FOr the most part it seemed to me MC was really blow a feat and poach a paragon path. Saga had the best d20 multiclassing but it was a bit abusable in regards to skills.
Power swaps where aweful. They compleatly overreacted to 3.5 and went too far.
What they really needed was...
MC Feat: You get part of the class feature (they did this ok, if not great).
Power Swap: You can take any powers. (as suggested above).
Stat Swap: You can use another stat with the powers (bards eventually got this).
Change Power Swap to
"Prerequisit: You must have the MC feat.
Effect: You can now take powers from your other class as along as you have at least one power from your primary class for each of the categories: At-will, Encounter, Daily, and Utility"
So it would cost one feat to be able to swap powers for the rest of the game. Maybe make it cost one feat per tier or something...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:51PM
#177
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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... because tradition ...
... valid...
Agreed.
edit:
And 5E fails, gets shelved, and you can say bye bye to any new D&D things that aren't action figures or cartoons...have fun...
Careful Lokiare or you may score an own goal. If the 4th ed crowd hates D&DN the 3.5/PF crowd might take that as a ringing endorsement.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:53PM
#178
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... because tradition ...
... valid...
Agreed.
edit:
And 5E fails, gets shelved, and you can say bye bye to any new D&D things that aren't action figures or cartoons...have fun...
Careful Lokiare or you may score an own goal. If the 4th ed crowd hates D&DN the 3.5/PF crowd might take that as a ringing endorsement.
Yeah, that's doubtful. They are with a company that cares about having them and doesn't pander to the corporate mentality. Good luck trying to convince them to leave...
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6 months ago ::
Dec 05, 2012 - 12:42AM
#179
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Mostly good stuff. Thanks for listening, WotC!
One thing I really dislike, though: the idea that a Rogue's player should choose between Advantage and Sneak Attack before rolling his attack. This is not a tactical choice, it's a pure gamble. Instead, do something else: perhaps tie the Rogue's bonus damage dice to getting a critical hit. This way he's encouraged to seek Advantage, since Advantage gives almost double the expected number of critical hits, but he's not penalized for guessing how his dice will roll, and most of the time he'll only get to deal normal damage even if he has Advantage.
Tying Sneak Attack damage to Critical Hits also emphasizes the Rogue's "skillful" nature, since he's able to exploit openings best, and turn a bit of luck into an overwhelming attack.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 05, 2012 - 2:35AM
#180
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Mostly good stuff. Thanks for listening, WotC!
One thing I really dislike, though: the idea that a Rogue's player should choose between Advantage and Sneak Attack before rolling his attack. This is not a tactical choice, it's a pure gamble. Instead, do something else: perhaps tie the Rogue's bonus damage dice to getting a critical hit. This way he's encouraged to seek Advantage, since Advantage gives almost double the expected number of critical hits, but he's not penalized for guessing how his dice will roll, and most of the time he'll only get to deal normal damage even if he has Advantage.
Tying Sneak Attack damage to Critical Hits also emphasizes the Rogue's "skillful" nature, since he's able to exploit openings best, and turn a bit of luck into an overwhelming attack.
Not a terrible idea, though WotC would have to be careful with future feats and abilities that modify critical chance, as those would be pretty paramount for a rogue built like this.
My two copper.
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