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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 3:48PM
#1
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Even while playing without a battle map opportunity attacks happen. Some characters are adept at avoiding these however.
If the designers ever create movement abilities that represent mobility around enemies that does not provoke opportunity attacks, they would be wise to keep shifting.
If the do not, every ability will need to state: "this movement does not provoke opportunity stacks". Shifting simplifies this process for both gridded ad TotM combat.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 3:57PM
#2
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You can move around in an enemies threatned area as long as you don't leave it without provoking an OA. To leave a threatened area you have to use a withdraw action. But then you can freely move wherever. What particular function is missing that shifting needs to be there for? The famous 5 ft back and spell?
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 4:00PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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So you are asking for them to reduce the player's mobility by putting in the requirement for shifting. Personally, I prefer the current rules over those from either 3.x or 4E.
They slow things down less and allow for greater mobility. What more do you want?
Carl
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 4:03PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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How does this allow for greater mobility? Stepping out of an enemy's threatened space always requires an action (disengage), meaning that you can't do anything else that turn. That doesn't sound like greater mobility to me. That sounds like severely reduced mobility. Unless you took a specific maneuver or other character option, you have no way of avoiding opportunity attacks.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 4:16PM
#5
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I'm thinking of the future here, not what we have now.
Examples:
Tumble: make an acrobatics check to shift 1/2 your speed as a move action.
Tide of Iron: as a standard action make a melee attack. If the attack hits you may push the target 5 ft and then shift into the square it left.
Deft strike: as a standard action make a melee attack. You may shift 5 feet before or after the attack.
Etc.
If every ability that gave movement that allowed you to move around one or more enemies required the sentence: "this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks" it would get old fast.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 5:20PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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How does this allow for greater mobility? Stepping out of an enemy's threatened space always requires an action (disengage), meaning that you can't do anything else that turn. That doesn't sound like greater mobility to me. That sounds like severely reduced mobility. Unless you took a specific maneuver or other character option, you have no way of avoiding opportunity attacks.
Withdraw action allows you to move 10 feet without provoking
yeah it takes trainging to do this and get an attack (funny enough the fighter gets 2 attacks on a spring attack after 6th level)
I think that is kinda the point though...the only way to do this and get an attack off is to be trained in doing so.
Luckily anyone will be able to pick up that ability via feats. They have said multiple times you will be able to get maneuvers from feats.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 5:22PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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I'm thinking of the future here, not what we have now. Examples: Tumble: make an acrobatics check to shift 1/2 your speed as a move action. Tide of Iron: as a standard action make a melee attack. If the attack hits you may push the target 5 ft and then shift into the square it left. Deft strike: as a standard action make a melee attack. You may shift 5 feet before or after the attack. Etc. If every ability that gave movement that allowed you to move around one or more enemies required the sentence: "this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks" it would get old fast.
I don't think they are going to be handing this ability out nilly willy though. You will actually have to face a detriment for letting the enemy close to melee when you don't want them there. You will have to take a turn to get away, and hope somone gets in the way to stop them from making it to you again (yay strategic team work).
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 5:26PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Withdraw action allows you to move 10 feet without provoking
Was it actually called Withdraw at any point in Next? Because people keep calling it that, but I don't remember it ever being anything other than Disengage.
yeah it takes trainging to do this and get an attack (funny enough the fighter gets 2 attacks on a spring attack after 6th level)
I think that is kinda the point though...the only way to do this and get an attack off is to be trained in doing so.
That wasn't my question, though. I understand that "that's the point", but my question was how then somebody could claim that this system offered greater mobility.
Luckily anyone will be able to pick up that ability via feats. They have said multiple times you will be able to get maneuvers from feats.
That's still not going to help casters.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 5:32PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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Withdraw action allows you to move 10 feet without provoking
Was it actually called Withdraw at any point in Next? Because people keep calling it that, but I don't remember it ever being anything other than Disengage.
yeah it takes trainging to do this and get an attack (funny enough the fighter gets 2 attacks on a spring attack after 6th level)
I think that is kinda the point though...the only way to do this and get an attack off is to be trained in doing so.
That wasn't my question, though. I understand that "that's the point", but my question was how then somebody could claim that this system offered greater mobility.
Luckily anyone will be able to pick up that ability via feats. They have said multiple times you will be able to get maneuvers from feats.
That's still not going to help casters.
sorry your right disengage...my bad
yet again I'm fairly sure that is the point. your caster will have to be smart and not get closed on...does help that casting doesn't provoke sooo you know find a way to push them on the regular...also if you stay in their reach they get no opportunity attacks sooo that's also cool.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 5:51PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2009
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How does this allow for greater mobility? Stepping out of an enemy's threatened space always requires an action (disengage), meaning that you can't do anything else that turn. That doesn't sound like greater mobility to me. That sounds like severely reduced mobility. Unless you took a specific maneuver or other character option, you have no way of avoiding opportunity attacks.
Withdraw action allows you to move 10 feet without provoking
yeah it takes trainging to do this and get an attack (funny enough the fighter gets 2 attacks on a spring attack after 6th level)
I think that is kinda the point though...the only way to do this and get an attack off is to be trained in doing so.
Luckily anyone will be able to pick up that ability via feats. They have said multiple times you will be able to get maneuvers from feats.
I've actually been allowing Disengage in place of their normal movement. Its a pain that everything that isn't an attack takes up your attack unless it is something rediculously simple. As for whether the concept of disengaging and being able to still attack is difficult enough that only a trained individual can do it. That really isn't the case, it's really not that hard to back up quickly and safely.
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