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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 3:13PM
#1
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I'm a fairly new member of this site, but I've dm'd a party for a good two years. One of my party members has taken to char-op'ing, and has made a two-blade ranger, having something around a +17 modifier to his twin strike attack rolls at level 6. I'm not sure this is possible, so I took a look at his character sheet.
He's been using dual bastard swords, and most of his things check out okay. However, with bastard swords (he's taken proficiency feats with them), the proficiency bonus is +3 for one sword. What he's been doing with his twin strike attack rolls is he adds the cumulative proficiency bonus from both bastard swords for each attack roll (so with TS, he adds +6 for the first roll, and +6 for the second roll). This is the part I'm not sure of, and a google search hasn't brought up an answer.
The way he describes this happening is that when the ranger uses twin strike, he whacks an enemy with both swords at once, then does it again, justifying the prof. stacking. The description in the phb seems to support this, but it's also really ambiguous and I just want to double check.
Anyone who can bring up official rulings would be really helpful, or just advice on this. Thanks!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 3:42PM
#2
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I'm a fairly new member of this site, but I've dm'd a party for a good two years. One of my party members has taken to char-op'ing, and has made a two-blade ranger, having something around a +17 modifier to his twin strike attack rolls at level 6. I'm not sure this is possible, so I took a look at his character sheet.
He's been using dual bastard swords, and most of his things check out okay. However, with bastard swords (he's taken proficiency feats with them), the proficiency bonus is +3 for one sword. What he's been doing with his twin strike attack rolls is he adds the cumulative proficiency bonus from both bastard swords for each attack roll (so with TS, he adds +6 for the first roll, and +6 for the second roll). This is the part I'm not sure of, and a google search hasn't brought up an answer.
The way he describes this happening is that when the ranger uses twin strike, he whacks an enemy with both swords at once, then does it again, justifying the prof. stacking. The description in the phb seems to support this, but it's also really ambiguous and I just want to double check.
Anyone who can bring up official rulings would be really helpful, or just advice on this. Thanks!
That's completely wrong.
First: He makes one attack with one weapon, then the other attack with the other weapon. WHich is also why he does "1W" per hit, not "2W". Second: EVEN IF he was using both weapons as part of a single attack, he is stacking two Proficiency Bonuses, which is wrong. Two bonuses of the same type never, ever stack.
(At level 6, he probably also has +2 weapons. Make sure he's not adding both his Enhancement bonuses, too.)
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 3:44PM
#3
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In fact, at L6, he should probably have:
Strength +4
Half-level +3
Proficiency +3
Magical weapon +2
Expertise Feat +1
For a total of +13 to hit. If his Strength is 20, he will have a +5 there instead of +4.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 3:56PM
#4
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That's completely wrong.
First: He makes one attack with one weapon, then the other attack with the other weapon. WHich is also why he does "1W" per hit, not "2W". Second: EVEN IF he was using both weapons as part of a single attack, he is stacking two Proficiency Bonuses, which is wrong. Two bonuses of the same type never, ever stack.
(At level 6, he probably also has +2 weapons. Make sure he's not adding both his Enhancement bonuses, too.)
Okay, this is what I thought actually happened, but couldn't find any evidence to back it up. Looking back, PHB1 pg 275 basically says that. His bonuses (off the top of my head) are:
Str +5
Half level + 3
Proficiency +3
Magic Weapon + 1
and the other +2 coming from feats. Does the 'bonuses of the same type don't stack' apply to feats as well? Kind of a redundant question, but I just want to cover all my bases before I confront my wayward player.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 4:11PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Bonuses of the same type (whatever the type, whatever the source, whatever the bonus is to) NEVER stack.
The type is the word between '+x' and 'bonus'. Thus, the two +3 proficiency bonuses from his two weapons don't stack (even could he use them both for the same attack roll). Nor would two Weapon Expertise feats, nor would two power bonuses etc etc etc.
Bonuses of the same type never stack. Untyped bonuses ('+x bonus', no word in between) stack with everything except themselves.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 4:14PM
#6
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It should be stressed that not al bonuses from feats are feat bonuses. If it doesn't say +x "feat" bonus, it isn't a feat bonus. +x bonus, with no word inbetween, is an untyped bonus and stacks with everything except itself.
But he is unlikely to have +17 at level 6.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 4:23PM
#7
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Alright, I'll have to look at the feats on his sheet again. But with the new adjusted score, would a +13-14 modifier to attack at lvl 6 be normal?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 5:01PM
#8
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Alright, I'll have to look at the feats on his sheet again. But with the new adjusted score, would a +13-14 modifier to attack at lvl 6 be normal?
Yeah, something around there is quite possible.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 5:23PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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Especially if that includes CA.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 7:52PM
#10
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and the other +2 coming from feats. Does the 'bonuses of the same type don't stack' apply to feats as well? Kind of a redundant question, but I just want to cover all my bases before I confront my wayward player.
"Bonuses of the same type don't stack" applies to BONUSES, all bonuses, no matter where you get the bonus from.
The others have covered how to tell if a bonus has a type or not.
(I can't think of any way to get +2 from Feats on weapon attacks at L6, offhand, but there might be a way. Thing is, someone who thinks he can get away with adding his Proficiency bonus twice probably also thinks he can get away with adding Heavy Blade Expertise and Master Of Arms together. So he's probably doing it wrong.)
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