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Update on this post: The DM that ran this campaign has asked me once again to his table to start a new character. I didn't have a chance to talk to him about what I felt went wrong, since he was out of town, but he figured out on his own that he hadn't fully explained some things about his world that my character would have known that made the NPC's absurd actions much more understandable and also would have affected some of the choices I'd made for my character. When the NPC had killed my family, it wasn't mere extortion, it was demonic-possession-induced erratic behavior. More kung fu theatre than crouching tiger hidden dragon, if you get me. Had I as a player known that, I'd have been much less eager to attempt to anger him into a parley such as this:

Without Fear

During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived - everyone except the Zen master.

Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was.

When he wasn't treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger.

"You fool," he shouted as he reached for his sword, "don't you realize you are standing before a man who could run you through without blinking an eye!"

But despite the threat, the master seemed unmoved.

"And do you realize," the master replied calmly, "that you are standing before a man who can be run through without blinking an eye?"

--
The NPC my character met was definitely not this general. If you find this story an incomprehensible mess, go ask a dog and he will tell you.

Dec 10, 2012 -- 1:46PM, Matyr wrote:

Wow that was a lot to read.  In short I find myself agreeing with Noct.  This is basically what I can infer from all the angry ramblings:

You wanted that to be an epicly awesome '80s movie moment.  You wanted the story to be completely about your triumph over hostility and anger by going to a zen state.  You are also trying to gain enlightenment and get back at the guy who murdered your family at the very start of the game.  You want your hero's journey to take you from level 1 to level 2.  You want to dictate the story and if it doesn't go your way, take your ball and go home.

The DM wanted this to be a believable NPC, one he had built and prepared to follow a specific set of rules he thought would make an epically awesome 2012 movie (Man with the Iron Fists was mentioned and I think that makes perfect sense... as a note I've only seen the trailer).  He wanted to story to be about your triumph over hostility and anger by going into a zen state.  He wanted to take you on an epic adventure to gain enlightenment until you were ready to face your past and deal with the NPC who murdered your family at the very start of the game.  He wanted your heroes journey to have all of the elements spread out from beginning to end (including the little-talked about epic-beat-down-you-must-one-day-overcome) over the course of the next 10 levels.  He wanted to develop a story with you, where you can work off of eachother and make decisions that seem to make some sense if placed within the game world and made precautions against you biting off more than you can chew.

TLDR (Which, honestly after the posts you put here you can get over): You went in expecting to non-combat an obvious combat encounter and got owned for it.  Then your DM softballed it for you at least 2 times so you wouldn't have to reroll and could keep and interesting story.

You grasped what each of us wanted to happen. You really seem to push the hack and slash mentality that the DM was actually trying to avoid and quite ungenerously assume much based on a single incident of less than exemplary behavior on my part (which I acknowledged as such ad nauseum). I'm not trying to 'dictate' anything except that I didn't think it's too much to ask that a character playing in a martial arts movie have more depth than the Karate Kid and if I decide to walk out on a game when it devolves from Seven Samurai to Karate Kid 7 meets Texas Chainsaw Massacre, that's hardly being childishly sullen as you imply.

As far as he explained to me, absolute realism wasn't his aim.. it was, in his words "esoteric and philosophical debate over simple hack and slash mentality".

The problem was indeed that the DM took the 'obvious' hack-and-slash route when he could have taken any of a million 'obvious' other routes or any of an untold number of less 'obvious' routes. While you think that was the 'obvious' choice, neither the DM nor myself think so in the sense that obviousness and predictability aren't necessarily the best choice a DM can make.

The power to make superior choices is in the hands of the DM, not the player. The choices the DM makes affect the setting and a good exceptional role-player will have his choices colored by the intended mood of the setting.

I started this post hoping for help approaching the subject of how a player can aid a DM toward favoring interesting over 'obvious' especially when the mood and style of the setting are compromised by the deceptively 'obvious' choice. If this had been described as an oriental adventures style hack and slash, I'd have done things different and played more like what you suggest. The DM expressed wanting more out of his game than 'obvious', so I was trying to find help verbalizing the concept of how to give him advice on how to make that happen.

I'm normally the DM in our group, but knowing how isn't the same as teaching how. Fortunately, I didn't have to. Apparently the DM figured it out on his own.

-- Maybe some DM somewhere will read this and take pause to realize he/she has the power to make decisions that make or break a game, but also the power to make a game great. The 'obvious' route to me is to make decisions that make it great.

Mar 8, 2013 -- 11:15AM, Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe wrote:

Mar 8, 2013 -- 10:37AM, Matyr wrote:

Mar 8, 2013 -- 10:21AM, merb101 wrote:

Mar 8, 2013 -- 10:07AM, Matyr wrote:

So you will queue up your epic whining rampage in a week or three?  Or do we have a little longer to wait this time around?

Matyr, dude, take a break. Find a different thread. There's no need to come looking for an argument.

Sorry, sometimes it is just hard not to poke the bear .

Ahh.. your old inability to comprehend is showing, my friend.

Leaving the massively belated response to something I said months ago aside, I look forward to reading your next rant.  It was silly, childish, entertaining and relaxing to watch you rage as you got what you really should have expected.  Then expected us to all come to your side and tell you "It is ok, we are all with you, the bad dm is a bad bad man".  Its the same people some people watch Jerry Springer.  You just can't turn away...