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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 8:42AM
#1
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As a DM, I had one question while reading the rules and running the Isle of Dread. With magic items removed from economy why do players need so much gold?
Wasn't one of the early goals of 5e changing gold to silver and creating a real respect for money?
I hated it in 3.x+ that players always treated money as unimportant. You either had not enough to get that next magic item you wanted or you had way to much to care how much you gave to beggars, informants or city officials or almost any non-magic item.
Now there are no magic items shops, magic items don't cost gold anymore but players still get way too much gold. And they got nowhere to spend it. At least not within game rules.
I would really like to see more effort in 5e towards simulating a real medevil economy. Now with removing magic items from every corner it is about time. If players need to deal with most problems they need to in real life (except paperwork and thank the gods of DnD for that :D) they should also need to with the most important one: money.
Also I got a suggestion about equipment. Collecting stuff was always fun in DnD. Now with magic items taking a lesser role (especially permanent ones) I would like to see new stuff added for players to collect. Either different alchemical stuff or one shot lesser magic items.
Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved had many of such items and they were fun.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 10:19AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2011
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I completely agree with you and posted a similar question when the magic item packet came out. Here are a couple of my random ideas to spend money on:
- healing potions and healing kits
- NPC wizard/cleric spells
- hirelings and henchmen
- paying off local law enforcement for the drunk dwarf's unruly behavior in the tavern after the dungeon delve
- character training under the best warrior/wizard/priest in the land (to learn a new maneuver or spell perhaps)
- buying that strange looking map from strangely cunning tavern wench (spoiler alert: she's a Dragon/Demon/Vampire/Lich/Fey Queen in disguise! Probably not a trap to get that new relic they found....)
- horses and barding
- a suitable base of operations for the party
- a lab for the wizard
- a NEW lab for the wizard because that Outsider he summoned blew the place up (we told him not to insult the guys mother!)
- a masterwork suit of armor for the warrior
- a good supply of flasks/vials of poisons, acids, wildfire, and alchemist goo
- a ticket to the Princess's upcoming wedding (I hear it's gonna be a bitchin' party and their evil arch-nemisis is gonna be there!)
- grease-money for the one hobgoblin sympathetic to the human town....use him to infiltrate the bandit gang and stop their attacks once and for all!
- the party's house is too small....build a small keep outside of city walls!
I completely realize that most of this stuff is roleplaying stuff. I'd like to see a short section in the rule books devouted to things like this. Even if it was just a random table or list of ideas.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:05AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2012
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Without magic items gold is more worthless than it has ever been. I would assume healing potions will be what most people spend their gold on now.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:19AM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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Well, you don't need to hand out lots of cash with every adventure. It's not as though there's a high cost of living, or anything. If the party happens upon a huge treasure hoard, then it's pretty much a plot device, just like it was before 3E.
It's entirely viable to go from 1 - 20 without making 10,000 GP along the way.
The metagame is not the game.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:57AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2012
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I agree with the majority of these posts. I'd really like to see the return to the older, more conservative use of money in D&D. A good example is when a group of low-level adventurers must scrounge for enough money to pay for a 1-night stay in an expensive inn. It makes for great role-playing when, as a DM, you can emphasize the difference between social classes. I mean, most adventurers should not have the same economic ability as wealthy merchants or nobles. There is a reason why they need to adventure - it's how they make a living! If, by 5th level, adventurers have enough gold to buy whatever they want, I find it hard to justify why they would continue to put their lives on the line? Questing for wealth can be a simple/strong motivation for adventurering parties, but this is rendered useless (as a DM tool) at very low levels with the current currency system in use in D&DNext.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:20PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2011
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I agree with the majority of these posts. I'd really like to see the return to the older, more conservative use of money in D&D. A good example is when a group of low-level adventurers must scrounge for enough money to pay for a 1-night stay in an expensive inn. It makes for great role-playing when, as a DM, you can emphasize the difference between social classes. I mean, most adventurers should not have the same economic ability as wealthy merchants or nobles. There is a reason why they need to adventure - it's how they make a living! If, by 5th level, adventurers have enough gold to buy whatever they want, I find it hard to justify why they would continue to put their lives on the line? Questing for wealth can be a simple/strong motivation for adventurering parties, but this is rendered useless (as a DM tool) at very low levels with the current currency system in use in D&DNext.
good point. I definitely agree with you.
But the problem I see is this: What rewards can/should the DM give out instead of gold?
Clearly, if gold (and experience) is the default reward, then you're going to saturate the PC's with too much currency at low levels -- especially now that they cant save up to buy magic items.
So what else can they receive as reward for an adventure that both FEELS like a good reward without overbalancing the game economy?
I think the DMG needs a good section on non-XP/non-gold/non-magicitem rewards.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 2:18PM
#7
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Just speaking as someone who DMed a lot of 4E, I really came to loathe that system of gold and magic items. The majority of the groups I DMed viewed gold/any kind of fungible treasure as a means to magic items. 100% of the player's gold went to magic items and for me, my DMing style, I felt this was bad for the game. Saying that gold is useless if it can't be spent on magic items really disappoints me. I want my players to spend it on their desires. Phat loot being entirely about numbers and power levels has its place, but doesn't anybody wanna buy a castle anymore? A horse? An airship? I think there's a reasonable middle ground here which is a way of saying I don't have the answer.
I think wealth by level guidelines in 4E got out of hand quickly. I felt this was because there was an expectation that gold would be used for magic items, not to achieve story goals like purchasing land or ransoming family members. What would your players do if they suddenly had way too much money? In 4E everyone would rush to get magic items. I think its an interesting question I'm actually planning on throwing out there in my next Next game.
DMAIA: DMs Against Immediate Actions - Turning 6 seconds into 15 minutes since 2008.
Vampire Class/Specialty in 2013!
Wizard: I cast Burning Hands.
Rogue: I grab a torch and a can of hairspray.
I prefer Next because 4E players and CharOpers can't find their ass without a grid and a power called "Find Ass."
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 3:22PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2012
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Emphasis on the use of "lesser" currency (like copper and silver) in the beginning/lower levels could do much to alleviate the problem of players accumulating too much wealth (gold bloat is a factor that can effectively devalue currency rewards, even at low levels of the game). Also, there are alternatives to the typical gold & items rewards that D&D has yet to really bring to the table.
Taking an example from other RPGs, one option would be to give out rewards in the form of "assets" that players can utilize. For example, once the party completes the quest for the wizard/noble/wealthy merchant, notify them that, as a reward for completing the quest, they now have gained an "NPC asset" that would allow them to have access to a boon relating to and provided by an NPC/group. This reward should be limited in scope and use. Possibilities for this type of reward system might come in the form of tutelage (learning or retraining of a trade, skill, or spell), networking (charters/endorsements from local nobles or communities), a single use access to a high level cleric/wizard spell/ritual (i.e. Teleportation, Resurrection, etc.), discounts on product purchases (i.e. horses, basic items, potions, etc.), or (at higher levels) even titles, honors, land, and holdings (I believed the developers talked about these things when describing the "Legacy" system they are working on).
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 5:36PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2008
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Great thread with a lot of good input.
I tend to use a lot of customization within each campaign for the rewards of completing tasks or quests, etc. Respected status at the Keep (the castellan looks to the group when trouble arises, supports the group when possible, etc) might be one reward for thwarting a significant threat to the area. Free stay at the inn for service to the innkeeper's in-laws. Reduced cost and free minor repairs at the blacksmith's after avenging his dog's mutilation. A good country meal with all the fixin's for slaying the rabid dire wolf that was killing the farmer's sheep. As the group levels, the rewards become more exotic, but more about bringing the world to life and not just about loot. One of my 4E campaigns is set in the Chaos Scar, and when Lord Drysdale was killed by assassins, he left the keep's guardianship to the players' characters. It wasn't just a boon, though, as they suddenly had servants, militia to maintain, etc., etc. The focus of the campaign had a shift and eventually, the group hired a castellan (of sorts) to run their estate because it was interfering with their adventuring (of course, troubles arose with them away resulting in more twists in the campaign's plot).
As for coins, which are still found, looted, and rewarded as well, I tend to play a more tightly controlled world of magic. Just because magic items have a price doesn't mean they are available to buy, much less available to buy at the "listed price." No Magik 'R Us shops with shelves full of every available item. Often, getting the magic items through purchase is a quest in itself. Perhaps they are remotely located and there's risk and much higher costs involved in getting it. Perhaps the characters need to recover rare material components necessary to have the item crafted. Perhaps dealins with a blackmarket are necessary, with all it's inherent trappings. I've even had a character duped into buying what he thought was a highly coveted magic item only to discover later, through trial and error (and only after growing suspicious after some oddities in results), it was a fake (this spawned a whole new "quest" for the group - seek revenge and recovery of lost wealth).
Plus, I have always encouraged thinking beyond just character combat equipment. Some players will never break from the it's-all-about-encounters mentality, but most actually start to see the fun, and even some benefits, to having a character that's part of the world, not just a sheet of paper to use in combat.
Also, my groups tend to reserve or use coins for healing, curative, etc., potions, rituals, and the like. Those tend to be coin sinks to some degree (from early on Healing Kits to the expensive potions later on).
To be honest, though, I have no problem with players who do find ways to amass wealth in the game if that's their goal.
Not sure if it would work for all groups and DMs, but that's how I deal with wealth and rewards.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:32AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2012
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I ran into this problem with the "evil" campaign I'm running when the party knocked over a jewelry store (it's my own damn fault for letting them into a jewelry store).
So next they went to the richest city in the country where the prices are exorbitant and the security is daunting.
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