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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 9:35PM
#131
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I think this is a good place for Sam Jackson to interject.
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"
My two copper.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 9:47PM
#132
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Each template had it's own rules for legitimate base creatures. There was no rule that limited th number of templates on a creature. The various half-templates do not render the creatures they are applied to incompatible with most of the other half-templates.
There is no rule that forbids the creation of a creature with the half -fiend, -dragon, and - celestial templates.
Half-template is not an official designation, there is no special rule concerning half-templates, because htey are not recognized by the rules as being a special category.
So the same rules apply to them as all other templates. You are allowed to stack templates as long as the base creature remains a legal target for the templates. Thus you are allowed to stack half-templates, becaus ehalf-templates, are not special, no matter how much you think they should be.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 9:56PM
#133
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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I think this is a good place for Sam Jackson to interject.
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"
Know who came up with that? Bush. Know how he came up with it?
Argument from silence (argumentum e silentio) – where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence.
He saw that logical fallacy and though it was good reasoning.
Each template had it's own rules for legitimate base creatures. There was no rule that limited th number of templates on a creature. The various half-templates do not render the creatures they are applied to incompatible with most of the other half-templates.
There is no rule that forbids the creation of a creature with the half -fiend, -dragon, and - celestial templates.
Half-template is not an official designation, there is no special rule concerning half-templates, because htey are not recognized by the rules as being a special category.
So the same rules apply to them as all other templates. You are allowed to stack templates as long as the base creature remains a legal target for the templates. Thus you are allowed to stack half-templates, becaus ehalf-templates, are not special, no matter how much you think they should be.
Again, if RAW allows the stacking of half templates, you can point to where it says it.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:07PM
#134
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Again, if RAW allows the stacking of half templates, you can point to where it says it.
RAW doesn't, and never has, stated in explicit language everything that is available to you.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:10PM
#135
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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Again, if RAW allows the stacking of half templates, you can point to where it says it.
RAW doesn't, and never has, stated in explicit language everything that is available to you.
Care to prove that?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:19PM
#136
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Page 293 of the 3.5 monster manual states that multiple templates may be applied.
Half-templates are templates and have no rules specifying a limit (even if such would make sense).
As such multiple half-templates may be applied.
See half-template is not a distinction the game makes, it's not a category according to the rules. Sort of how drakes don't get a sub-type within the larger dragon type. Most DnD players will recognize a drake as a dragon type creature without the distinct age categories of true dragons, and usually lessers of the true dragons ins size, power, magic, and intellect. However while they are called drakes, and players recognize the group they have no special rules (if anything they are defined by the lack of the usual special rules regarding true dragons).
Drake is not a category possessing special rules, neither half-template. As such both are subject ot the normal rules for overall group, the dragon type for drakes, and templates for half-templates.
There is nothing special about a half-template.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:26PM
#137
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Again, if RAW allows the stacking of half templates, you can point to where it says it.
RAW doesn't, and never has, stated in explicit language everything that is available to you.
Care to prove that?
Where does RAW say that you can attempt to disarm someone by throwing your shield at their wrist? It doesn't. As I said "RAW doesn't, and never has, stated in explicit language everything that is available to you."
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:34PM
#138
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Again, if RAW allows the stacking of half templates, you can point to where it says it.
RAW doesn't, and never has, stated in explicit language everything that is available to you.
Care to prove that?
Quite simply spoken: All of your character die if they exist for more than a minute. There is no rule which states that you can breathe, and as such per RAW all character will die form suffocation within a short few minutes. What a badly designed game this is...
If you have questions about 4th Edition - don't hesitate to ask me via PMs. Join the Community Monster Manual Group and help to collect a mass of monsters which will make your life as DM easier, and your life as Player pure hell!  I am a cartographer. You can find some of my maps in my profile, free for non-commercial use. Also, if you happen to like maps or make them yourselves, join into the Cartographers Group!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:36PM
#139
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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Again, if RAW allows the stacking of half templates, you can point to where it says it.
RAW doesn't, and never has, stated in explicit language everything that is available to you.
Care to prove that?
Quite simply spoken: All of your character die if they exist for more than a minute. There is no rule which states that you can breathe, and as such per RAW all character will die form suffocation within a short few minutes. What a badly designed game this is...
You know, there's rules for suffocation in the 3e DMG, and it gives very clear conditions required for suffocation. It requires more than just existing for a minute. Good try though.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 10:41PM
#140
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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My previous post however covers it.
Half-template is not a recognized subgroup, it has no special rules, therefore the rule on page 293 of the monster manual that allows stacking templates allows stacking half-templates.
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