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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 9:58AM
#111
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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To be fair powergaming in 3e based games such as pathinder is one of the only ways to be useful at higher levels without playing a mainline caster.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 11:34AM
#112
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Define powergaming.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 11:48AM
#113
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2009
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Welp, I see no possible way this could turn into a flame war.
Carry on.
Yeah, please don't feed the troll people. It isn't even a clever or imaginative one. "I don't understand why people enjoy constrained optimization!!!!!!"
Calling someone a troll is a CoC violation.
As is trolling them... like you did in the above post.
I can never die.
Meet the Hater
Tusken Raider of the House of Trolls
Demi-god of Anger and Hatred
President and Taste-Tester of the Dry Land Whaling Society
Proud vagitarian
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 12:02PM
#114
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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Ok either adventure design has deteriorated even further, or something is screwy because a min-maxxed 4e character shouldn't be able to nail level appropriate enemies on a 2 or a 3.
Not at first level, no, but I play with someone who hates missing, and puts every resource into accuracy.
With a high attack stat, the right items and feats, accurate powers etc. you can get in the area you were talking about.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 1:34PM
#115
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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Taking 4 particular classes, most likely following a build you saw online, so that you become an unstopable killing machine thanks to certain well placed abilities.
Or a 4e character that takes certain abilities and items that work "too" well together and breaks the game.
Any time a character is refered to as a "build" really is at least a yellow flag to me 
I will give an example. In a pathfinder game I ran a player took 1 level barbarian and 1 level of inquisitor. He took the inquisitor power that let him enlarge person for x rounds a day. So at 2nd level he enlarged, raged, and had a reach weapon. So he had 28 strength (or 26, I cant remember how much enlarge gives), 15 foot reach, and a large sized weapon dealing 3d8 damage. At level freaking 2.
He dealt almost 3x as much as the next highest damage dealer in the group, and everyone else felt useless :P When I asked him why he did this he replied "I wanted to see how rediculous it would be."
That's what I mean by powergaming. When your character is having fun at the expense of other people, for no good reason.
It doesn't sound so much like he was trying to ruin the others' experience, just like he was trying to have some fun with a different set-up. Anyone who is purposefully trying to have fun at other peoples' expense isn't a powergamer, but a dirty dirty munchkin.
Edit: Oh, and I forgot people who abuse techicalities, bad wording, and obvious mechanical oversights
Rules lawyers? Yeah, they're evil.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 3:59PM
#116
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Rules lawyers? Yeah, they're evil.
Not just rules lawyers. (NSFW warning)
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 6:19PM
#117
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Lol, seriously if a player did that whole pick dangerous options with dying as a recourse to failure thing, his character would be pretty immortal. Either that or not sitting at my table for long.
That's the thing - groups go out of their way to avoid such situations by making it no longer completely random when someone gets unhappy about what they rolled. How many times in a roll 4d6, best of 3, have you seen a DM tell a player to pick the lowest roll and reroll it when they've had horrible luck? Or find out what the lowest high score is and just give it to the character?
That's not random, but a lot of groups do this without even noticing that it happens. The groups that don't reroll at all are usually the ones with a crazy high death rate at 1st level - only the strong aka above average rolled characters will survive.
You can notice this a lot in 1e-2e games - the difference between a 14 Con Wizard and 16 Con Wizard was breathtaking...
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 7:14PM
#118
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Ok the power gaming in that comic is just min-maxxing a broken system. It's the system's fault for creating that situation.
That's why I consider 3e to be a min-maxxer's playground, becuase it's easy to min-max and the results are dramatic. This is because the game is completely borked. If the player is using legitimate tactics and builds, it's the devs' fault for not being careful.
Example: in 3e if you played a 1/4 human, 1/4 dragon, 1/4 minotaur, 1/4 ogre you could rack up a +24 strength at the cost of a +4 LA. Was this over the top? Oh completely. Was it perfectly legal in game terms (assuming the GM allowed those templates)? Yes.
3e had a solid system underneath it, but when the devs actually wrote the feats, races, classes, and spells they borked it up tremendously, often because they ignored the ramifications of the core system interacting with the content they wrote for it, or the content interacting with other bits of content.
If you don't want wild disparity between PCs of the same level you have to have careful content writers.
Also: No 4e is too math deadlocked there aren't enough constant attack bonuses to run up a character's attack that much higher than it should be for his level. Now there are ways to rig it up so you almost never miss, but most of that is re-rolls and conditional bonus trigger abuse.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 7:21PM
#119
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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There is no 1/4 dragon or 1/4 minotaur or 1/4 ogre template in 3e. The closest thing I can think of to any of that is a half-dragon. It's been a while since I looked through Savage Species but I don't remember a half-ogre or half-minotaur.
I kind of want to do a half-dragon minotaur now.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 01, 2012 - 7:25PM
#120
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Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2008
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I had a centaur Dragon Disciple (which granted the Half-Dragon template). I called him a Dragataur.
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