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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Champion of Darkness: Drow Tempest Fighter Build
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 4:06AM #21
DarthPotater
Date Joined: Feb 28, 2011
Posts: 293
I think its better start with 13 DEX 13 WIS, you can pick Superior Will in heroic/paragon, and you OAs and will are higher.

A paladin or a Knight is not a better chasis for this build? Because of the stats and the mark puishment are opportunity actions or no actions. Just asking
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 4:11AM #22
RCNovak
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2011
Posts: 80

Nov 30, 2012 -- 3:12AM, svendj wrote:

First off: I find this build awesome, so here's a 




Thanks, man! Glad to see you're feelin' it. :D 

I would also like to see a more complete power progression. I was surprised that Come and Get It wasn't there, for example, until I noticed that you only posted the powers that were present at 30.




Considering the attention the build is generating, I will do a full write-up of the Power Selection soon. Luckily I'm getting a lot of good feedback to help me see which powers are best in the first place.

The major weaknesses of this build that I can see are:
1. Getting caught in close bursts and blasts, which your cloud doesn't protect you from. The easiest way to get around this is the level 6 Arcana skill power Warp in the Weave. Requires training in Arcana though.




I was looking for a new Utility 6, and that does sound sweet. I have no idea how I'd cram Arcana Training in, though. 

2. Becoming stunned, dominated, petrified or removed from play so you can't sustain your cloud anymore. This could probably be solved by utility powers and items that grant you instant saving throws, not to mention Superior Will.




Superior Will is definitely going in there. The feats section is a little work-in-progress, trying to see what I can give up.

3. Huge and larger enemies. Although you will still be invisible, they won't be blinded by your cloud and are free to, at the very least, use ranged attacks on your allies. This also won't trigger your mark since you probably won't have one on them (see next point).

4. Not marking enemies. Sustain standard for your cloud is nice and all, but it means you can't attack enemies during your turn to mark them. This leaves them free to use attacks against your allies. If those attacks are close attacks, they won't even be penalized for them.




Yeah, Huge enemies would be a detriment to the Cloud. However, would I not mark enemies with my OAs? Eventually a huge monster would trigger one, either from attempting to move or by Ranged Attacking my allies. After that I could exploit Combat Challenge, correct?

5. The lack of Stealth. You already mention this, but seriously, just take Twilight Adept as your MC. Hiding in your own cloud of darkness every turn is really awesome.




I know. The sheer concept of stealthing in the cloud is so tasty. Once again, need to figure out what feats I can loose to make up for it.

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 4:35AM #23
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,049
A thought: Curseborn seems a decent alternative paragon path for you if your game remains in heroic and early paragon. Close burst 2 difficult terrain is almost the same as not being able to shift away from you, and recharging your cloud on an action point is sweet. The E11 power stinks, but that's what Reserve Maneuver is for. The U12 is okay, and the E20 (encounter!!) is cool because the alluring lights make opportunity attacks, which you get huge bonuses to. The only bad thing is the F16, but if you were playing for that then you should have taken Gladiator Champion. 

Regarding Stealth and Arcana training: your MC should give you Stealth, and your background could give you Arcana training. Too bad about the HP background, but you should get hit a lot less than regular defenders anyway. 

These are the required feats for the build IMO:

Heroic: 
- Heavy Blade Expertise
- Agile Superiority
- Clutch of Darkness
- Improved Defenses
- Superior Will
- Twilight Adept
- Blade Opportunist

Paragon (getting both at level 11):
- Darkness Reign
- Heavy Blade Opportunity

Epic:
- Lolth Blessed 

The rest could be used to pump your damage, but stuff like Resilient Focus, Superior Reflexes and Fortitude (one of them over Imp. Def.) and Stout & Encouraging Shield (switching to a heavy shield and One-Handed Weapon Talent) is awesome for keeping yourself alive even more.

Why did you build it as a Tempest fighter anyway? 
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 4:46AM #24
RCNovak
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2011
Posts: 80

Nov 30, 2012 -- 4:35AM, svendj wrote:

 Why did you build it as a Tempest fighter anyway? 




Well, at the time I thought that the bonuses from Tempest Technique, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Two-Weapon Defense opened a better range of damage and defense with his high Dexterity score (plus, I didn't know if I was going to make use of Two-Weapon Opening or Two-Weapon Flurry). But a Heavy Shield could be a better choice, I havent crunched the numbers.


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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 5:22AM #25
ArelOfAikala
Date Joined: Oct 27, 2011
Posts: 287
Or get to 15 Wisdom (which you'll need for Superior Will), MC Cleric via Divine Healer, and swap Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore (which the builder doesn't allow, but it's RAW legal). You'll get a +2 shield bonus to AC for a single feat, and you can keep dual-wielding. Looks like a good trade to me.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 6:32AM #26
ezrider23
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2009
Posts: 1,090
Would starting your stats @ 17/13/15(Str/Dex/Wis) be doable? Pump Strength/Dex throughout the life of this PC and you still qualify for Superior will in heroic. Puts you behind some in your attack stat but if you're sustaining your cloud and using auto damage stances that shouldn't kill you too much.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 7:16AM #27
RenZhe
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2011
Posts: 972
Has anyone mentioned the Black Hole build that was put out about 2 years ago?

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

This was awesome back in the day. A lot of notes you can probably crib from there. 
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 7:41AM #28
Matyr
Date Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Posts: 2,726

Nov 30, 2012 -- 5:22AM, ArelOfAikala wrote:

MC Cleric via Divine Healer, and swap Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore (which the builder doesn't allow, but it's RAW legal)




For someone working on their first build I really wouldn't recommend this. Yes it is RAW legal, but there is a lot of argument over this issue.  He might want to keep all of his parts inside the ride for the first build or so...

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 7:58AM #29
ArelOfAikala
Date Joined: Oct 27, 2011
Posts: 287

Nov 30, 2012 -- 7:41AM, Matyr wrote:

Nov 30, 2012 -- 5:22AM, ArelOfAikala wrote:

MC Cleric via Divine Healer, and swap Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore (which the builder doesn't allow, but it's RAW legal)




For someone working on their first build I really wouldn't recommend this. Yes it is RAW legal, but there is a lot of argument over this issue.  He might want to keep all of his parts inside the ride for the first build or so...




An argument I really don't understand, to be fair. The wording on BCL is perfectly clear, as long as you have Healer's Lore the swap can happen. The only ground people still hold is its inability to function in the Builder, which we should all know by now is not a rule source.
There are a lot of shadier things in CharOP than this one.

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 8:14AM #30
Fardiz
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 2,194
The argument is that the BCL feature says that "clerics may switch..." but a multiclass cleric is only a cleric for the purposes of feat and paragonpath prerequisites.
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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Champion of Darkness: Drow Tempest Fighter Build
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