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4 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 6:36AM
#541
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Since the spells come from your Paladin spell slots (and not Wizard spell slots), you'd use your Paladin CL. Simple as that.
no one rule say it, you are using your own discretion.
The main rule don't cover this unatural excepción.
wow my Paladin is "unatural" that's just mean Oma, mean, you hurt his feelings!
Oma the rule does say you use the Paladin's CL. It stats it clearly that you use the class (paladin) who is casting the spell.
The rule you keep bringing out about using the classes class level DOES NOT always apply, since many classes don't use their class level, including 4 Core classes from the PHB and DMG. You are saying the main rule doesn't accound for a third of the classes in the PHB alone.
If the caster level is determine by the class casting the spell, then the paladin class is what is used and it is specifically stated in the paladin class that their caster level is half their class level, the rule you keep quoting does not apply to Paladin and Rangers who have specific rules over the general (as they are half casters)
Secondly the class Mystic Fire Knights (caster level=half Paladin level+2+Arcane levels) already accounts for the arcane spellcasting.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 4:38PM
#542
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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By using the Wizard spell list, you add those spells to those already known as a Warmage might gain a spell with their Advanced Learning class feature. The spell that is now on your list is cast as a spell of that level from your list, not as a spell of that level would be cast from wherever the spell was pilfered from.
Eg. A Warmage could apply Warmage Edge to any spell they cast, reguardless of if it was originaly part of their list or if it was gained due to Advanced Learning.
right because are in your warmage spell list and you are using the warmage spell list and not the wizard spell list the point is that the wizard spell are in her own wizard spell list and not in the paladin spell list.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 4:42PM
#543
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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Since the spells come from your Paladin spell slots (and not Wizard spell slots), you'd use your Paladin CL. Simple as that.
no one rule say it, you are using your own discretion.
The main rule don't cover this unatural excepción.
wow my Paladin is "unatural" that's just mean Oma, mean, you hurt his feelings!
Oma the rule does say you use the Paladin's CL. It stats it clearly that you use the class (paladin) who is casting the spell.
The rule you keep bringing out about using the classes class level DOES NOT always apply, since many classes don't use their class level, including 4 Core classes from the PHB and DMG. You are saying the main rule doesn't accound for a third of the classes in the PHB alone.
If the caster level is determine by the class casting the spell, then the paladin class is what is used and it is specifically stated in the paladin class that their caster level is half their class level, the rule you keep quoting does not apply to Paladin and Rangers who have specific rules over the general (as they are half casters)
Secondly the class Mystic Fire Knights (caster level=half Paladin level+2+Arcane levels) already accounts for the arcane spellcasting.
I dont talk about your paladin, i talk about the open void in the rules.
as standard your paladin in raw can't put new spells in the spellbook but is supposed that you gain the spellbook class feature instead of the description of the feat.
but the spell are specifically referred as wizard spell and not CL or evidence of that this spell are use or Added to your Paladin Caster level/Spell list.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 5:28PM
#544
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Oma, "Wizard" spells are, as you know, a misdenomer. They are arcane spells. You do know that classes other then Wizards can use Wizard spells straight from a wizard spellbook or scroll. In much the same way as a Paladin, Cleric and Druid can all use the same scroll. The reference to "wizard" spells is only significant in refering to it as A: Arcane B: Preperation
Secondly it adds that spell list to the Class. No that does not make them divine nor does it make them "paladin" spells, but you have to stop being deliberately dense. The ability to prepare and cast these spells from his spell slots is adding the spell list.
Again, the ability to prepare and cast spells is exactly that, the ability ot prepare and cast spells. Saying they aren't on his spell list is absurd.
The reference to "wizard" spells is again to show that they are arcane (not divine) and are prepared differently then the paladin spells.
more importantly, none of that is relevant as the rules are very specific in refering to the Class casting the spell. regardless of the spell's source or type, the fact remains that the rules specifically state the class casting the spell is what determines the CL.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 8:53AM
#545
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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Oma, "Wizard" spells are, as you know, a misdenomer. They are arcane spells. You do know that classes other then Wizards can use Wizard spells straight from a wizard spellbook or scroll. In much the same way as a Paladin, Cleric and Druid can all use the same scroll. The reference to "wizard" spells is only significant in refering to it as A: Arcane B: Preperation
Secondly it adds that spell list to the Class. No that does not make them divine nor does it make them "paladin" spells, but you have to stop being deliberately dense. The ability to prepare and cast these spells from his spell slots is adding the spell list.
Again, the ability to prepare and cast spells is exactly that, the ability ot prepare and cast spells. Saying they aren't on his spell list is absurd.
The reference to "wizard" spells is again to show that they are arcane (not divine) and are prepared differently then the paladin spells.
more importantly, none of that is relevant as the rules are very specific in refering to the Class casting the spell. regardless of the spell's source or type, the fact remains that the rules specifically state the class casting the spell is what determines the CL.
well in this case the book had referred it as wizard & sorcerer spells, the main point is that all classes that gain this have her own spell list that have access to some spells in the wizard & sorcerer spell list
This feat try to give you a parallel casting ability, you cast arcane like as if you were a wizard now as described in the text then as you are saying if prepare and cast is the same then you cast as if you were a wizard then you cast with a CL equal to your class level in this case paladin and is marked in the example of multiclass
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 9:11AM
#546
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2001
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This feat try to give you a parallel casting ability, you cast arcane like as if you were a wizard now as described in the text then as you are saying if prepare and cast is the same then you cast as if you were a wizard then you cast with a CL equal to your class level in this case paladin and is marked in the example of multiclass
We've already determined that "class level" is talking about the caster level of the class.
If it wasn't, Practiced Spellcaster would be useless, since spells would ignore any adjustments to the caster level and just use the class level.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed.
• When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle.
• When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets.
• When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall.
• When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade.
• When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water.
If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 9:23AM
#547
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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This feat try to give you a parallel casting ability, you cast arcane like as if you were a wizard now as described in the text then as you are saying if prepare and cast is the same then you cast as if you were a wizard then you cast with a CL equal to your class level in this case paladin and is marked in the example of multiclass
We've already determined that "class level" is talking about the caster level of the class.
If it wasn't, Practiced Spellcaster would be useless, since spells would ignore any adjustments to the caster level and just use the class level.
Nop because a fighter can select Practiced Spell Caster wizard instead of Practiced Spell Caster Fighter.
Because is Fighter the class that is used for cast the spells, but still are wizard spells that use the wizard caster level.
And again the example dont say nothing of use the CL of the paladin in first place, your are using the standard logic that dont work in this case remember that those description not are made for this things, as normal a single class have a single spell list.
the example of the fighter with spells mark how the CL need be definded.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 9:26AM
#548
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Oma, all that means that this class now has another spell list added to it, he casts it like a wizard (arcane spells, prepared from source) None of that is relevant to what Caster Level is used.
As stated the CL is determined by the Class casting the spell, not by the type of spell being cast. In this case, the spell is being cast by the Paladin as it uses the paladin spell slot and thus the paladin's caster level.
Aditionally the Multiclass rules don't effect this because the Paladin is not multiclassing. He gains the spell list and it is added to that class, which is different then gaining a spell list from multiclassing as the new list applies to the other class.
ie a Paladin and Cleric both share many spells. So I would have to determine if I prepared a Cure spell in a Paladin slot or a Cleric slot to determine caster level (who's spell am I casting)
In this case the spell list in question belongs to this class, and are being cast from his spell list, so they use his caster level. The Multiclass rules would only apply if he was casting spells with a different class (ie 5 paladin/5 wizard)
Again, the rules are implicit that caster level is determined by the class casting the spell, not by the type of spell.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 9:36AM
#549
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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Oma, all that means that this class now has another spell list added to it, he casts it like a wizard (arcane spells, prepared from source) None of that is relevant to what Caster Level is used.
As stated the CL is determined by the Class casting the spell, not by the type of spell being cast. In this case, the spell is being cast by the Paladin as it uses the paladin spell slot and thus the paladin's caster level.
Aditionally the Multiclass rules don't effect this because the Paladin is not multiclassing. He gains the spell list and it is added to that class, which is different then gaining a spell list from multiclassing as the new list applies to the other class.
ie a Paladin and Cleric both share many spells. So I would have to determine if I prepared a Cure spell in a Paladin slot or a Cleric slot to determine caster level (who's spell am I casting)
In this case the spell list in question belongs to this class, and are being cast from his spell list, so they use his caster level. The Multiclass rules would only apply if he was casting spells with a different class (ie 5 paladin/5 wizard)
Again, the rules are implicit that caster level is determined by the class casting the spell, not by the type of spell.
yes it does.
the CL are defined too as "usually your level in the appropriate spellcasting class plus applicable modifiers" this the definition of a caster level check
the appropriate spellcasting class of wizard spells are the wizard class.
and as standard is defined as the CLASS LEVEL that are casting the spell, not say that is defined for the class that cast the spell.
THE STANDARD say that you use the class level, still i dont understand where you are take fundamentals to say "it use the paladin caster level"
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 9:49AM
#550
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2001
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This feat try to give you a parallel casting ability, you cast arcane like as if you were a wizard now as described in the text then as you are saying if prepare and cast is the same then you cast as if you were a wizard then you cast with a CL equal to your class level in this case paladin and is marked in the example of multiclass
We've already determined that "class level" is talking about the caster level of the class.
If it wasn't, Practiced Spellcaster would be useless, since spells would ignore any adjustments to the caster level and just use the class level.
Nop because a fighter can select Practiced Spell Caster wizard instead of Practiced Spell Caster Fighter.
Because is Fighter the class that is used for cast the spells, but still are wizard spells that use the wizard caster level.
You have a wizard caster level in that case because the Magical Training feat gives it to you.
the CL are defined too as "usually your level in the appropriate spellcasting class plus applicable modifiers" this the definition of a caster level check
the appropriate spellcasting class of wizard spells are the wizard class.
That would give you a caster level of zero, since you have no levels in wizard.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed.
• When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle.
• When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets.
• When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall.
• When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade.
• When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water.
If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
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