That would of course depend on the spell even being avialable. i imagine most scrolls and such are purchased from mages and othres equiped to handle such things, although a few common scrolls might be avialable to merchants catering to adventuring types.
A spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana) roll would be limited because it isn't on a wizard's spell list, using UMD isn't deciphering the scroll in the same sense that Read Magic or Spell Craft would, it is more "ok, If I do this with my hand and say these words it activates" rather then a full understanding, You couldn'd use UMD to decipher a scroll and add it to your spell book for example.
For a class that is starving for Skill Points and that can barely get the UMD skill up, he isn't going to have much in the way of other skills (Gather Information, SpellCraft, Knowledge (arcana) and other cross class skills.)
That would of course depend on the spell even being avialable. i imagine most scrolls and such are purchased from mages and othres equiped to handle such things, although a few common scrolls might be avialable to merchants catering to adventuring types.
When the world has adventurers with gold burning a hole in their pocket, you'd expect sellers wanting to make some cash. Mind you, transcend mortality isn't the best thing to sell if you want return customers.
A spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana) roll would be limited because it isn't on a wizard's spell list, using UMD isn't deciphering the scroll in the same sense that Read Magic or Spell Craft would, it is more "ok, If I do this with my hand and say these words it activates" rather then a full understanding, You couldn'd use UMD to decipher a scroll and add it to your spell book for example.
According to the skill description, Use Magic Device works just like Spellcraft for deciphering a written spell, apart from the higher DC (+5) and longer time requirement (1 minute as opposed to 1 full-round action).
For a class that is starving for Skill Points and that can barely get the UMD skill up, he isn't going to have much in the way of other skills (Gather Information, SpellCraft, Knowledge (arcana) and other cross class skills.)
True; I'm only noting a possible method for a fighter. He'll be beggaring himself on skills if he actually wants to cover all that.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
= My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.Show
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. • When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. • When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. • When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. • When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. • When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
This also begs the question of how does Oma plan on getting any of these scrolls in the first place?
With a Fighter who has no ranks in SpellCraft of Knowledge Arcana, it is unlikely that he has even heard of these spells from rare and obscure classes. Wizards and Sorcerors are par for the course, but Oriental Wei Jun (sp?) high level scrolls? HellFire scrolls? While they might encounter those can cast these spells, and get some scrolls as loot. This in itself would be rare, getting these particular spells in the scrolls even rarer. These are scrolls that wouldn't be available in 99% of games.
How about buying them? Well unless there are those who can cast these spells in a town (again rare outside of a particular setting) they won't be readily available. And without Knowledge (arcana) it is extremely unlikely he has even heard of the classes, let alone the particular spells, so would never know to ask or where to look.
In fact just buying regular scrolls for common spells would be difficult with his lack of knowledge, how does he know that Prestidigitation isn't a 5th level illusion spell? Especially in a group that doesn't have a caster of any kind in it. Looking for rare scrolls from obscure classes would be astronomical to find (let alone specific high level spells)
Even if you have a Wizard in your group, and he identifies the spell, kind of (school, rough idea of the theory) he won't fully understand it enough to tell you what you are casting. "it's a spell that imbues you with magic for a ritual suicide" is the best you are likely to know about Transend mortality. If you are lucky! Or else he will tell you it is an awesome buff spell and later one they will stand around your pile of ashes and wonder what hit you.
Where do you get these spells Oma? You certainly couldn't buy them in any regular setting, your chances of finding them in loot is far too remote to base a class build on. It would be excedingly ultra rare to get ahold of one of these spells, let alone several different such spells.
Decipher the Writing: The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).
Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll
Use Magical Divice
Decipher a Written Spell: This usage works just like deciphering a written spell with the Spellcraft skill, except that the DC is 5 points higher. Deciphering a written spell requires 1 minute of concentration.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, that works fine for Casting a scroll with UMD, but not for other uses.
UMD is used specifically to cast a spell from a scroll.
You couldn't use UMD to identify a glyph of warding, Identify a spell being cast, Learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll, determine the school of magic involved in the aura of a single item or creature, identify a symbol, Identify a spell that’s already in place and in effect, Identify materials created or shaped by magic, After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell is, Identify a potion, Understand a strange or unique magical effect, such as the effects of a magic stream. Etc Etc.
My point here is that you don't have full knowledge of the spells, so what basis do you have for buying these items? You really are going on blind luck with treasure in hopes decent scrolls are included, if you get that classes scrolls included in the treasure, and if it is the right scroll.
By the way, 10 rounds of concentration to cast a scroll is less then ideal, lol. And a Level 9 Spell btw is a +20+9+5= 34 DC
What about your fighter with 11 Ranks, +10 UMD Ring and maybe +3 Char Modifier? total 24 in the skill? You have a 50% chance of making that roll. (need a 9 or 10)
I know You insist on a 40,000 +20 UMD item, but I am unsure of the max skill you can add to a magic item, I am under the impression it is +10 (as that is the maximum such item in the DMG anyways) To make a custom item for UMD will take a level 17 Character with 20 ranks in UMD and is debatable if it is allowed, point of fact neither me nor my current DMs would allow it.
Then you don't have ranks in Concentration, etc, as I was saying before, it is very possible for you to get and use magic items without realizing what they are, a DM would be well within rights to not tell you minor details in spells beyond what you need for targeting etc. (ie Fireball 100 ft range, 20 ft radius) or at least add an additional DC for those details.
but i can cast from a scroll this, if you really need to know it, maybe i can't know the school but read the last entry, now while battling i gain battle knowledge, maybe i don't know that he cast Invisivility, Greater Invisivility or something like that but with combat EXT, i can know "mm he are invisible or use kind of teleport" then you can make preventive action, or if are in the limit of the Arcane Sight then you know if he are there or not.
Level: Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal(AS NORMAL THE FIGHTER CAN'T USE IT) Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D)
This spell makes your eyes glow blue and allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly.
You know the location and power of all magical auras within your sight. An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning level or an item’s caster level, as noted in the description of the detect magic spell. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + one-half caster level for a nonspell effect.)
If you concentrate on a specific creature within 120 feet of you as a standard action, you can determine whether it has any spellcasting or spell-like abilities, whether these are arcane or divine (spell-like abilities register as arcane), and the STRENGTH of the most powerful spell or spell-like ability the creature currently has available for use.
Arcane sight can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
Now under the DMG 2 and the UA you can have informants or contract a skill specialized NPC the the fighter can go with someone and ask for good scrolls and effects.
And the level 20 character have mush more UMD that +24 and you can decipher it with time, then when you use it you don't need to waste 1 min. in decipher it.
Now the items cost 40 000 Gps you can go with a mage pay for it and wait 40 days, this item cost less that a weapon +5 or a ring of protection +5 and under the DMG the maximum of ranks that an item can give as non epic are 20
And as described decipherthespell let you know what the spell doing and with the arcane sight you know the level of the power.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, while that spell would grant you that, it isn't relevant to my point, which is that UMD would not give you understanding of the scroll beyond what you need to know to cast the spell. This is fine because that is all you need to cast a scroll, and it would allow you to identify a scroll enough to knwo what it is for.
What it wouldn't do is anything beyond that. Such as knowing about the spell at all. So when you are shopping and buying magic items, yes we take it for granted that a Wand of Cure light or a potion is common knowledge, as well as common place spells, that we see being cast on a regular basis. But what of rare, high level spells from rare (and mostly unknown) foriegn classes?
Wu Jen spells are not common, and in fact rare to non-existing, outside of certain settings. So the likelihood of finding any of their spells in treasures is rare at best, and a specific high level spell rarer still.
And shopping for a spell that your character doesn't know about? With no Knowledge (arcana) skill (cross class skill at that) you aren't likely to even know about these spell, let alone knwo what to shop for. And availability outside of a setting with Wu Jen is going to be zero, they actually have to exist for the spells to exist. So in 99.99% of games these spells won't even be available to purchase of in treasure, and if they are, they are most likely so rare that you never find them. And that rarity makes them way more expensive.
So your character in most settings would be lucky, extremely lucky, to ever get ahold of one.
Again, Oma, Your Max skill ranks in UMD is 11 at level 20, how do you get skill that high as you say? I'd like your source on the +20 UMD device
Please read the DMG 2 pag 155, if i got a new and rare Scroll i can go with a specialist and pay 2009 Gps and ask to him what the hell is the scroll and he make a check with +44.
Or Try to ask to a friend for free with a Check of +20
sorry but as a Starting Class the Wujen are common in an area of the plane as example i can go to "japan" to buy Wujen, and under the rules an Uncommon item cost X2 or X3 her current cost, now unless you want the scroll with urgency you can waint and go to the wujen town.
Now the wu jen scroll not is common in an encounter of gobblins but are very common in an encounter of Wu jens and samurais, now if in the campaing you are using the Complete Arcana this scrolls have the same rarity that a paladin, ranger or bard scroll.
Now with arcane sight and the decipher you know the power of the scroll and what the scroll doing, maybe the fighter going to look like a girl in a super store because he need many time to check each scroll that he look with great power but at last he can do it.
Use Magical Divice 35 =11 Ranks + 20 competence + 2 Cha + 2 Nymph's kiss, now the standard DC are 34 as you describe and in skills not exist the automatic miss then you don't need make the check because you do it automatic.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
If the scroll is found in the treasure I have no objection with you deciphering it to figure out what the item is. I am talking about the rarity of finding such an item in any treasure. You understand that the class has to exist in your setting for it to be included in treasure, right? This would be very, very rare for any Wu Jen spells to be found, let alone a specific spell to be found in treasure outside of a setting.
As for purchasing, yes the cost would be multiplied, but thats IF it is available, which again would be excedingly rare outside of a setting. And that would be any Wu Jen spell being rare, let alone a specific spell.
And then the question comes to How do you know what scroll to look for? A Wizard Guild is not going to carry these scrolls, if they had such a rare scroll they wouldn be unlikely to part with it. You do not have Knowledge (arcana) or Spellcraft so wouldn't even know about such a spell existing let alone "go to the wujen town" You can't premetitatively look for and purchase an item that you don't know exists.
This is like pre-ordering the unwritten, unpublished novel of an unknownauthor!?!
Now the wu jen scroll not is common in an encounter of gobblins but are very common in an encounter of Wu jens and samurais, now if in the campaing you are using the Complete Arcana this scrolls have the same rarity that a paladin, ranger or bard scroll
That's fine if you are playing in an oreintal setting, in which case you have something like a .000001% chance of getting a specific scroll such as this. Where do you suppose this scroll would appear in the random treasure table for Major items? Even in a setting that included Complete Arcana this would be rare enough.
Use Magical Divice 35 =11 Ranks + 20 competence + 2 Cha + 2 Nymph's kiss,
It is the +20 Competence item here that I am questioning specifically Oma. I'd like to see your source for that as +10 is the general limit as far as I am aware.
1- right i don't know that something exist but exist libraries and specialists, I can go to a large town and go with some specialists and ask "well i am good using magical divice but i don't know what scroll buy now because the ones that I know are underpower now you can say tell me some good high level Buff and Support Spells" now depending on howmuch GPS I spend as example 1008 GPS (+37) he can say "well I know rare spells but this spells are very rare in the stores but exist an hermit at one day to the south that maybe can sell some of this, well this spell are powerful ones X,X,X,X,X"
or go with my contact and ask the same with +20 for free.
2- nop, if you are playing 3.5 the Wu jen have the same rarity that a druid, they are lonely but exist in all the world, but right unless you defeat an opponent that know an wu jen or use wu jen spells or scrolls your chance of found a scroll are almost null.
3- Because you can craft any non epic item with the standard feats and the rules +20 in the skill not is epic and 40 000 Gps are a low cost.
While not truly an artifact, the epic magic item is a creation of such power that it surpasses other magic items. Epic magic items are objects of great power and value. The following are typical characteristics of an epic magic item. In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item.
Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5.
Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5.
Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5.
Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus).
Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5.
Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6.
Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30.
Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th.
Has a caster level above 20th.
Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
I absolutely agree that in a setting where there are Wu Jen the scrolls will be of the same rarity as a Druid's Scrolls. But that is a setting where there are actually Wu Jen around.
For example, in the Middle Ages, in our world, Japan existed. So no doubt a Japanese item could be found during that time, right? So if you were in paris, France you would just need to run down to your local store and.....what they don't carry Japanese merchandize in Paris, France? Perhaps you expected an African Swallow to carry one over?
So your scroll would have the same rarity as a Druid spell, IF YOU WERE IN JAPAN! (or the oreintal hodge podge in D&D)
Perhaps Marco Polo might have some item from the oreint, But that's pretty damn rare isn't it? That's why he is in our history books. He traveled to China and he is a thing of legends a thousand years later.
So if you aren't in the Orient (replacing Wizards and Sorcerors with Wu Jen) these spells should be rare as all get out. Basically unavailable for all intents and purposes.
What I am saying Oma, is that it isn't plausible for you to have that spell outside of a very specific setting where Wu Jen are common. Possible, but not plausible and probably impossible in most games.
+20 UMD item for 40,000, but didn't you start with a Charisma of 8? So I take you have a +6 Cloak of Charisma, that is 36,000 gp, so a total of 76,000 gp in gear to support just being able to use Magic items.
As for the +20 item, as the DMG has +10 items as the maximum, I am very unsure of the acceptability of +20 items.
At the very least the Minimum level to make a +20 skill item is 17, as you need the minimum skill to make the item, exceeding +30 for the Epic isn't a rule for the lower levels since looking at the epic rules shows no real level cap (ie level 50+ characters are possible) At any rate you would need to be a level 27 Character to make a +30 Skill item. So exceeding +30 Skill items would require you to be Level 30+
I wonder if anyone knows if there is more clarification on this?
