Oma, to get back on the subject. Boosting his Caster Level just makes this class build that much better then your gimped Fighter Feyaphile playing with his magic wand, because my arcane levels are all that more powerful. Especially when using a Staff of Power.
I would like to see your gimped Fighter Feyaphile playing with his magic wand, do better then my Paladin who is pumping out swift action paladin spells followed by Arcane spells and melee combat while you tinker with your toys.
Nop in any part of your Feat this say that you added the Spell List to your paladin Spell List then you can't do it, and as not part of your Spell Paladin Class Feature you gain one new and this not are affected for your Paladin Restriction, like be Divines as described in your Spell Class feature.
And again the rule say that is usually your class level, you are gained a new spell casting ability you don't add nothing to your paladin Spell casting ability.
now about the Character comparation, i was using 20 Standard levels while you are using Level Substitution that not are standards as described in the Pag 34 of Champions of Valors this have prerequisites then if you are out of your organization you lose your benefits and all paladin of your orden are guards of the mystra temples or bodyguards in the quest to locate ancient magic, you dont have time for adventures.
and you cant make your Arcane spells Swift because not are Paladin Spells, are wizard spells and still what you can do with Level 4 Spells??? while the fighter can boost her AC a lot and your spells are Time Limit while the Fighter Abilities are always ready and at last you are a Paladin "GOOD" in a valorous organization and my character is a Exalted one your character always going to try to avoid a fight again him, right in the case that my character visit the forgotten realms.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Nop in any part of your Feat this say that you added the Spell List to your paladin Spell List then you can't do it, and as not part of your Spell Paladin Class Feature you gain one new and this not are affected for your Paladin Restriction, like be Divines as described in your Spell Class feature.
Oma, I chalenge you to list the spells this class with Sword of the Arcane Order can cast from his spell slots. That is all a Spell List is, a list of spells that you are able to cast.
Can he cast these spells? Yes.
What exactly is your objection, that I am writing them in alphabeticle order?
And again the rule say that is usually your class level, you are gained a new spell casting ability you don't add nothing to your paladin Spell casting ability.
Except the ability to prepare and cast Arcane Wizard spells.
So long as I never write them in alphabetical order.
now about the Character comparation, i was using 20 Standard levels while you are using Level Substitution that not are standards as described in the Pag 34 of Champions of Valors this have prerequisites then if you are out of your organization you lose your benefits and all paladin of your orden are guards of the mystra temples or bodyguards in the quest to locate ancient magic, you dont have time for adventures.
Oh la de da, you were using splat books for Exalted feats. If you want to say you are makign a standard, core material only class, then use only standard core material. You're using Exalted Feats and equipment from a campaign book or some other obscure source.
What? Do you want a cookie because you made a patheticaly weak build?
I am using a low level switch. As for the prerequisites, It involves being a standard paladin of Mystra, and Knowledge (religion) is a standard class skill. The requirements are so insignificant as to not be worth mentioning.
As for being "out of the organization by adventuring" perhaps you don't understand the concept of "quest to locate ancient magic"?
and you cant make your Arcane spells Swift because not are Paladin Spells, are wizard spells and still what you can do with Level 4 Spells???
It is only the Paladin spells that I am casting as a swift action, I've specified this over and over again. As for what I can do with 4th level spells? the answer is, more then what your character can do with a couple of wands and scrolls.
How many Wands/Scrolls is your fighter going to buy Oma, You couldn't afford to buy enough scrolls and wands to cast the number of spells my Paladin will cast, you would never reach my characters potential with a couple of wands and scrolls. I can prepare and cast potentially every spell up to 4th level, and churn them out with little to no cost, and at a decent caster level, not the minimum for wands/scrolls. I can apply Metamagic rods and feats.
For example, you give up your attacks for a round to pull out a 11,500 wand of cure serious wounds for 3d8+5 hps, whereas I can cast it 3d8+15, as a Swift action, maximized with a metamagic rod, and then either continue with my Full Round Attacks or cast a second, maximized spell.
So lets do the math: Fighter, 18 hp for 230 gp vs Paladin, 39 hp and full Round attack (or another 39 hp)
while the fighter can boost her AC a lot and your spells are Time Limit while the Fighter Abilities are always ready and at last you are a Paladin "GOOD" in a valorous organization and my character is a Exalted one your character always going to try to avoid a fight again him, right in the case that my character visit the forgotten realms.
We were talking about the effectiveness of a melee Tank that could cast Divine and Arcane spells. Mine is better hands down as I can actually cast the spells instead of needing items. At best you have a handful of wands and a small amount of luck with some expensive scrolls. Multiple UMD rolls and a 50% Arcane spell failure with your armor being a serious restriction on scrolls.
I can get around my Arcane Spell Failure by Still Spell and Sudden Still feats (and possibly a metamagic rod of still) I can also use Maximize and Quicken rods. I have a much higher Caster Level, even using the paladin caster level not the wizard, so my spells will be much more effective and powerful then what you can offer. For example, Quickened Rod to cast Haste as a swift action before doing a Full Round attack on the enemy, while you are giving up your attacks this round and hoping you make the roll with your scroll.
Who would win in a fight between the two? You are picking one of the worse solo class and expecting a couple of wands and scrolls to make the difference? Armed with spells, a higher caster level, some rods, wands, Scrolls and pearls of power etc etc etc, my Paladin will blow yours out of the water in any exchange of buffs/debuffs. Your only hope is to forget trying to use UMD and to close the range as quick as possible, and you know (Dimension door, fly, Greater Invis etc) that I am not going to make that easy.
And when you do get in, (on my terms) You bet I will be hasted and nicely buffed while you aren't (and if you are, Greater Dispell Magic on melee attacks 5/day will settle that) but most likely you will be severely debuffed. I can heal as a swift action while doing my full round attacks while you, well I think I will win a contest of attrition thanks to all those extra hit points and your weakened state.
this is as normal but some times a character have more that one spell casting list, as example a Fighter with wizard spells and levels in blackguard.
The background of your character say that he can make a free multriclass between paladin and wizard, he cast like a wizard and her CL is like a Wizard because no rule say the contrary.
The standard is use the CL, the Spell Slot not are described that the factore that put the CL in the Spell, is the Class Level, and the feat never say that this are Added to your paladin Spell Class feature.
and about the characters, well a little scroll of Transcend Mortality and about the HP, the Item Familiar can cure as free as well and i can waste a turn to cure 90 Hit Points from a Heal and how mush attack you can have to hit the fighter while if he are in fighting mode gain more that 60 of AC. him are good your Smite can't help you to hit with your single greater Dispell Magic.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, a character has more then one casting list because they have more then one set of spell slots to go with each list. Such as the case of a Cleric/Wizard, he has Cleric spell slots with the cleric list and wizard spell slots for the wizard list, a seperate list for each seperate set of spell slots.
In my case the Paladin only has only one set of spell slots, and thus the list of spells he can cast for those spell slots would include both Paladin and Wizard spells.
You are confusing the Paladin for a mulitclass caster who would have two seperate set of spell slots. The reference to Spell List is this context is the list of spells for a set of spell slots, so unlike a Multiclass caster with 2 seperate spell lists for different slots, I only have one set of slots with one list of spells for that slot.
As for the characters, you are overreaching your capabilities. Transend Mortality is a level 9 spell, an expensive scroll, so your UMD rolls are rather high, not to mention your 50% ASF. And the simple act of casting it pretty well ends the fight. Long and short is he diminsion doors out of reach and waits and watches until it wears off, he can spare 2 minutes for a chuckle.
When the spell ends, you are instantly slain and reduced to a pile of dust (as disintegrate). This effect allows no save and can't be prevented by any means,
So the only thing to debate is if it is against his Code of Conduct to laugh at you.
That leads to the problem with your build. How many 4,000 gp scrolls and 21,000gp wands can you burn through? Your vaunted abilities are only useful if you actually use them, so how often do you use them?
I'd like to see you list of how many spells you cast, at what level and how much they cost in Scrolls and wands. This is probably you build's largest weakness.
If all you are going to counter with is armor and weapons and magic items that I can also use (item Familiar, I can use that) then you aren't going to win.
Oma, a character has more then one casting list because they have more then one set of spell slots to go with each list. Such as the case of a Cleric/Wizard, he has Cleric spell slots with the cleric list and wizard spell slots for the wizard list, a seperate list for each seperate set of spell slots.
In my case the Paladin only has only one set of spell slots, and thus the list of spells he can cast for those spell slots would include both Paladin and Wizard spells.
You are confusing the Paladin for a mulitclass caster who would have two seperate set of spell slots. The reference to Spell List is this context is the list of spells for a set of spell slots, so unlike a Multiclass caster with 2 seperate spell lists for different slots, I only have one set of slots with one list of spells for that slot.
As for the characters, you are overreaching your capabilities. Transend Mortality is a level 9 spell, an expensive scroll, so your UMD rolls are rather high, not to mention your 50% ASF. And the simple act of casting it pretty well ends the fight. Long and short is he diminsion doors out of reach and waits and watches until it wears off, he can spare 2 minutes for a chuckle.
When the spell ends, you are instantly slain and reduced to a pile of dust (as disintegrate). This effect allows no save and can't be prevented by any means,
So the only thing to debate is if it is against his Code of Conduct to laugh at you.
That leads to the problem with your build. How many 4,000 gp scrolls and 21,000gp wands can you burn through? Your vaunted abilities are only useful if you actually use them, so how often do you use them?
I'd like to see you list of how many spells you cast, at what level and how much they cost in Scrolls and wands. This is probably you build's largest weakness.
If all you are going to counter with is armor and weapons and magic items that I can also use (item Familiar, I can use that) then you aren't going to win.
1- The rules never say it, the Spell Slot are only To store spells as normal the one for your class but this not the case the feat are a Specific rule that overlap the fact that you can only store the paladin spells, for it you multiclass note, as example a fighter paladin casting one of her wizard spells gain a CL equal 1+your Paladin Class levels instead of your (Paladin CL/2) +2+1
2- Yes you paladin only have a set of spell Slot but he can put the Wizard spell's in those slot's because exist the feat, the feat say it, you can prepare your wizard spells in your paladin or ranger spell slot and no more. all other rules apply normally, you don't are added the wizard Spell List to your Paladin Spell Class feature. again if you have the weapon finesse feat not means that you deal damage with dex.
3- What have to be the Spell Slot with the CL???? as described you have 2 Spell Casting Abilities you cast like a gestalt character but with only one set of Spell Slot but thanks to your feat you can put the wizard one in the Paladin one.
Ok what Rule say That your wizard CL not is equal to your Class level (look the Wizard Example) again you no one rule say that you added the wizard spells to your paladin spells as described are separate in wizard spells and paladin spells not are the same then don't have the same CL.
4- well we talk about level 20 (760 000 Gps) character and a level 9 scroll cost only 3825, and again as described in the USE MAGIC DIVICE you cast the spell and this scroll can't be affected for a metamagic but not for other items like the Gloves of Free Cast to overcome the next ASF, and a standard level 20 character can make this chack with 1 in her Dice.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
1- The rules never say it, the Spell Slot are only To store spells as normal the one for your class but this not the case the feat are a Specific rule that overlap the fact that you can only store the paladin spells, for it you multiclass note, as example a fighter paladin casting one of her wizard spells gain a CL equal 1+your Paladin Class levels instead of your (Paladin CL/2) +2+1
Dunno what fighter you are refering to. But Ok, I will use a Wizard Caster Level and be more awesome then.
4- well we talk about level 20 (760 000 Gps) character and a level 9 scroll cost only 3825, and again as described in the USE MAGIC DIVICE you cast the spell and this scroll can't be affected for a metamagic but not for other items like the Gloves of Free Cast to overcome the next ASF, and a standard level 20 character can make this chack with 1 in her Dice.
Your problem here with your level 20 character is that aside from normal equipment and gear (Sword/Armor/Magic items) will dwindle that out. When we are talking about Wands and Scrolls, I don't mean the handful you would use for a single encounter. I am refering to how many you use in the course of 20 levels.
Your drawing up a 20th level character based on a wealth by level chart that doesn't take into account the level of consumables you are using for this class. If your model is 1 or 2 spells a level, then your build is laughable to claim as a viable caster in comparison, I am casting multiple spells on each and every encounter, and I am already regularly using over a dozen different spells at level 4.
Want to put a price estimate on the cost in wands for all the spells I will cast by level 20? 300,000gp is on the lower side of that estimate, if I was playing a normal Paladin, Sinc emy focus is one spell casting, I would expect 500,000 or more to be a more accurate cost. So lets be realistic in what you can afford.
Oma, if you are building a "one shot" character I believe the pricing for "one shot items" such as scrolls gets increased by a factor of x10. Maybe some body will find the RPGA character creation guides because that sounds about right. This means that the 9th-level scroll you want on your character sheet for 3825 gp really needs to cost a bit more then that, like say 38,250. The reason for that is pretty simple, in a "one shot" environment anything that can only be used one time is priced at a premium. They are so cheap because they are "use once" but when that "use once" is all you'll ever need to worry about them they are stupidly cheap. I may equip NPCs of that level at the "normal" price but for a PC one shot they are going to pay dearly.
Now why charge more for one shots? Maybe this will help: Problem: I want a +5 weapon. Normal campaign: Pay for masterword weapon and additional 50,000 gp to have a +5 weapon for your campaign.
One Shot: We're going to adventure for a day at most so buy weapon and Oil of Greater Magic Weapon (@ CL 20 for +5 effect) for 3000 gp.
Effective difference during play: Almost zero Difference in gold spent for a "+5 weapon" to use: 43,000 gp.
In a one shot environment that Oil of GMW will cost a lot more. Priced at 30,000 gp (x10 standard price) it is still 20,000 gp cheaper then an actual +5 weapon but it does have a few possible drawbacks that the permanent magic item has.
I am casting multiple spells on each and every encounter, and I am already regularly using over a dozen different spells at level 4
Whit the low amount of spells and your low level in Stats (you need Con,Str,Int,Wis,Cha)
And remember this is the Average as normal a character LV 20 can have more Gps or lower Gps.
And remember the fighter can fight miny times in a day with her same power level instead that a paladin that can only have a few encounters per day, more encounter per day = more Gps per day.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, if you are building a "one shot" character I believe the pricing for "one shot items" such as scrolls gets increased by a factor of x10. Maybe some body will find the RPGA character creation guides because that sounds about right. This means that the 9th-level scroll you want on your character sheet for 3825 gp really needs to cost a bit more then that, like say 38,250. The reason for that is pretty simple, in a "one shot" environment anything that can only be used one time is priced at a premium. They are so cheap because they are "use once" but when that "use once" is all you'll ever need to worry about them they are stupidly cheap. I may equip NPCs of that level at the "normal" price but for a PC one shot they are going to pay dearly.
Now why charge more for one shots? Maybe this will help: Problem: I want a +5 weapon. Normal campaign: Pay for masterword weapon and additional 50,000 gp to have a +5 weapon for your campaign.
One Shot: We're going to adventure for a day at most so buy weapon and Oil of Greater Magic Weapon (@ CL 20 for +5 effect) for 3000 gp.
Effective difference during play: Almost zero Difference in gold spent for a "+5 weapon" to use: 43,000 gp.
In a one shot environment that Oil of GMW will cost a lot more. Priced at 30,000 gp (x10 standard price) it is still 20,000 gp cheaper then an actual +5 weapon but it does have a few possible drawbacks that the permanent magic item has.
This don't apply unless you start the battle with the item magic used, because you need waste a turn in do use it, other point if you use dispell magic you erradicate the magic thats not happen with an item that have a long live.
The rules apply as well with the Spells and Hit Points, not is the same fight again a wizard at the end of the day, that fight with a wizard starting the day.
Now let check as described the oil waste a turn, make your weapon better for a "TIME" and the dispel end the effect.
See the examples of the NPC.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Oma, I sstill have enough stats to grant bonus spells, as well as Mystic Fire Night granting extra spell slots. I am basing these costs on an average expected number of spells I cast per encounter, the levels I get those spells, and how many encounters I will typically face each level, that would a significant consumable cost to match that isn't reflected in your wealth by level chart.
Level 4, I have 3 spells/day (1 base, 1 bonus and 1 pearl of power) I cast 2 per encounter from a pool of all paladin and 6 Wizard spells that I managed to prepare. Now I am level 6 and I have a total of 5 spells per day (I bought another pearl of power) and typically cast 3 spells per encounter.
This doesn't include the spells I cast outside of encounters. Casting Charm Person on a guard in the city, Prestidigitation because damn it I shoudl glitter for the peasants, the more so as I get higher levels and have more leftover low level spells, although as I cast Paladin spells as a swift action I will not leave many.
Then there is the overall benifits of casting the spells themselves. What I gave as prices was for the lowest level versions of the spells. It is one thing to price a wand as 750 gp for a level 1 spell, there is another to suggest that same level 1 wand as 3,750 for a level 5 caster, or 6,750 for a level 9 caster. I am casting a more power version of the same spells, and a more expensive and effective version, so my cost estimates that I gave are low.
The reason for that is pretty simple, in a "one shot" environment anything that can only be used one time is priced at a premium. They are so cheap because they are "use once" but when that "use once" is all you'll ever need to worry about them they are stupidly cheap. I may equip NPCs of that level at the "normal" price but for a PC one shot they are going to pay dearly.