|
6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 9:12AM
#11
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
|
The wizard actually has a huge advantage when it comes to rituals: they can cast any spell as a ritual as long as it is in their spellbook. And they get to add a number of spells equal to their Intelligence mod each time they gain a level (probably at least 3). The cleric needs to have the spell prepared in order to cast it as a ritual, and given the very limited spell slots, this is a big hindrance. It means that if you want a ritual spell, you will only have a single option (at most) for that spell level, in terms of non-ritual spells.
As others have said, the wizard also gets much better spells (in terms of battle power or just plain utility) than the cleric. The cleric spells are mostly about support, because that is the cleric's role.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 11:59AM
#12
|
Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2008
|
The wizard actually has a huge advantage when it comes to rituals: they can cast any spell as a ritual as long as it is in their spellbook. And they get to add a number of spells equal to their Intelligence mod each time they gain a level (probably at least 3). The cleric needs to have the spell prepared in order to cast it as a ritual, and given the very limited spell slots, this is a big hindrance. It means that if you want a ritual spell, you will only have a single option (at most) for that spell level, in terms of non-ritual spells.
You also have your Domain Spell.
As others have said, the wizard also gets much better spells (in terms of battle power or just plain utility) than the cleric. The cleric spells are mostly about support, because that is the cleric's role.
The Inflict spells deal FAR more damage than any Wizard Spell of equal level. Flame Strike is the highest damage AoE spell. The best Wizard spells are the support spells (like Haste) and the best Cleric spells are damage. I feel they have it quite backwards.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 12:46PM
#13
|
Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2005
|
Sorry if this has been discussed before but really I'm not too sure clerics should have ranged single target "lazer" spells, at least not at will. Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of being able to wear heavy armor & use effective melee weapons? Shouldn't the cleric be a bit more up close & personal in combat? And if there is a small discrepancy between cleric & wizard this should fix it, right? What do you guys think?
Im doing another videoreview of the update and Lance of Faith as an atwill spell for a light god is cheesier than the D&D movies. No fan of Ray of Frost or any ranged atwill spell for wizards too.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 02, 2012 - 4:22PM
#14
|
Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
|
Cleric ? Is it not this melee heal/buff bot who can make a crappy attacks when healing to make him feel not being the slave of his comrades ?
Yes, cleric are a far more wonderful class than wizard !
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 05, 2012 - 4:10AM
#15
|
|
|
Arithezoo captured it perfectly - the wizard, from what I can tell on the forums, is supposed to be the flexible class that can do anything. To balance that out, that flexibility has to come at a price of power. So, the cleric, who doesn't get as many out of combat spells, and can't be every class, needs to be more powerful.
After all, the balance people will argue as above and be mostly happy. Those who don't care about balance shouldn't care as long as the wizard and cleric are distinct. Even the people who like core classes to be OP shouldn't care, since cleric is core. The only people who would see this is negative is the people who like wizards to be OP
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 05, 2012 - 5:51AM
#16
|
Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
|
The cleric and the wizard are about the same to me, for the reasons all ready put forward: power sometimes vs power all the time, etc. The cleric does win out for me in the current packet, but the changes suggested in the most recent L&L article (scaling at-wills, alternate casting systems) make me think that probably it'll be a lot more even. On this point I'm happy to wait and see, but the cleric is a damn good class that doesn't get a lot of press here. I really enjoy playing mine.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 05, 2012 - 11:39AM
#17
|
|
|
I want to put forth the point that the wizard's current strength comes not from their spell-list but their bonuses to spell-attack and imposed saving-throws. Even if you gave them the exact same spells, wizards spells will have 10% to 20% more frequent effects than a cleric casting those spells. Evaluating a cleric's martial capability also requires that you take into consideration that they need to have two strong ability scores to make both weapons and spells worthwhile.
|
|
|
