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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:51AM
#51
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My argument was poorly formatted there, but you didn't rebut it.
If you what you are served tastes like lobster and smells like lobster and cost the same amount a lobster, how are you any worse off than being served a lobster dinner?
I'm allergic to non-lobster. You've killed me.
In reality, however, consider from the other side how much of a d-bag that chef must be to offer someone lobster, CHARGE them for lobster, then serve them lobster-flavored chicken.
Then realize in this situation, the d-bag chef is the DM.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:52AM
#52
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When you are talking about broad concepts (in this case, the illusion of choice) that effect DnD, sometimes there are easier examples to use than actual DnD ones. It's not my fault that English is not your first language, for most people who frequent these forum it is, and they would understand the discussion at hand.
If you want to discredit my argument go ahead, but don't attack me as a person.
Agreed.
I am following the example just fine.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:52AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2010
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This was stated - "Also, to Condor: No, the DM does not have all the control. The players have all the control. The DM is also a player. He get a little more say but only by the consent of the players. Equals."
My Reply: Your saying 1+1=3, DMs game, DM has the control, if the DM gives control over to players fine but that is how much control the DM has. You can deny that fact! but that is all you're doing.
Your applying the view of a "Player/DM", while I am speaking about a dedicated full time DM who doesn't play the game. I don't think any wotc games have dedicated DMs(so I can see where you may have misunderstood me).
http://advanceddnd2edrevamp.proboards.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:55AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
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Yes, sorry, the word I mean was Silly, not Foolish. Is the same word for me. I think it is still possible that examples of D&D are better in D&D discussions, no? Becuase if you use other examples, the discussion becomes about those examples and not really about D&D for pages and pages...
Anyway, the thing about illusion of choice is this: DMs are not as smart as they believe they are. You can not succeed at it forever and if players see my choices are not real, you can lose respect. It is not worth it when you can just play the game honestly. More easy that way anyway.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:57AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
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Condor, a DM is still playing a game when he is DM. A game with equals. Other people. They share power or should anyway.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:58AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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I would rather control when the players meet an encounter. If they keep picking the right routes they will never run into that goblin patrol and you will have wasted your time designing the encounter (which especially online, takes quite some time).
But sure, if you really wanted to give them a choice, you could have the fight take place on a different map for each pass. Seems kinda pointless, as the players wouldn't recognise the different, they only see what is put in front of them, not what is in your head.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:59AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2010
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DMs have full control even if that makes players mad... Boohoo, Boohoo...."
http://advanceddnd2edrevamp.proboards.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:02PM
#58
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I would rather control when the players meet an encounter. If they keep picking the right routes they will never run into that goblin patrol and you will have wasted your time designing the encounter (which especially online, takes quite some time).
But sure, if you really wanted to give them a choice, you could have the fight take place on a different map for each pass. Seems kinda pointless, as the players wouldn't recognise the different, they only see what is put in front of them, not what is in your head.
If your world only contains goblin patrols, it probably wasn't much of a world to begin with so they weren't missing much no?
And the players WILL notice the difference when the world invariably starts to fold in on itself because of all the magician-switches going on.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:08PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
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The real illusion in D&D is the lie a DM tells himself that he is in complete control. Those people sitting across from the DM are people. They will make choices. You can lie to them or be honest. You can try to control them and hope for a good game or ask them for their help in making a good game. What is easier? Have some trust that they want to make the game fun too.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:08PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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I would rather control when the players meet an encounter. If they keep picking the right routes they will never run into that goblin patrol and you will have wasted your time designing the encounter (which especially online, takes quite some time).
I hear you. But a DM is not well served by assuming that anything they create will ever see action in their game, even if they tightly control the effects of the PCs' choices. This is why I now go the collaborative route as much as possible, trying to set up encounters more or less on the fly, based on direct or indirect player input. Yes, that's very hard to do online, unless you can get away without using a map, but it's rewarding when one knows that the players are in an encounter they really want to be in.
But sure, if you really wanted to give them a choice, you could have the fight take place on a different map for each pass. Seems kinda pointless, as the players wouldn't recognise the different, they only see what is put in front of them, not what is in your head.
And the goblins turn out to be kobolds, or skeletons, or whatever else. I heard of a DM whose players in 3.5 had encountered nothing but orcs for several levels, but thought they'd been facing humans, ghouls, demons or whatever else the DM needed those orcs to be.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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