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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 10:11AM
#41
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />If I could not tell the difference at all, why should it make a difference to me as a diner (or a player)? That's why I eat meat, not quorn. When they make a meat-replacement substance that actually tastes like meat I will happily switch and wouldn't care which was served to me.
What difference? You paid for it.
Unless you like paying lobster-prices for chicken dinners.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 10:11AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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My problem is ... maybe I am not explaining it properly .... how to put fear of certian NPC into the hearts of the PC?
You can't, at least not with certain NPCs. The players might get scared of a particular NPC, but people often rebel against that, even unconsciously. Fear is somewhat deprotagonizing, making them feel less heroic, so if they want to feel heroic, they won't feel (or roleplay feeling) fear.
Your players might get scared of something, and if they do grab onto that opportunity and run with it. And do whatever you want to try to make them scared, but just roll with it if they're not.
EDIT: I am also reminded that this can be handled almost trivially by collaboration. Tell the players that a fearsome orc has appeared, one they identify immediately from songs and stories told of in hushed whispers, then ask them what aspects of this orc make him so fearsome. The players themselves might very well create for you an enemy that you could not imagine fairly throwing at them. Your job is then just to figure out why this enemy doesn't bother smashing them flat - though you can collaborate with them on that, too.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 10:20AM
#43
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My problem is ... maybe I am not explaining it properly .... how to put fear of certian NPC into the hearts of the PC? This might be a bad example but it is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. In FFVII, Cloud and his group meet Sephiroth at several point early in the game. At first you are like who is this guy? Then he displays his "power" to you and you realize you are no where near ready to face him. So when he shows up again you are actually some what scared of him, he kills Aeris and now you have your own personal reasons for going after him, not just because he is the BBEG.
Of which I have gotten some good responses; have NPC display power in front of the party but not at the party, have rumors and what not of the NPC power and what it can do ... etc.
In the weeks that followed since then I have given them several choices and have had the world go on around them, not because of them. Hence the Death Knight attack and burning of an entire town that the PC could only see in the distance.
The best way to do this is to NOT do it in a forced way. Do not seek to merely do that.
If there is someone powerful, have them do their thing. Just have that NPC go about what they're doing. Have a plan in mind for them...have goals for them...know how those goals interact with the world. When they accomplish things, if the PCs hear or know of these things and the world is fleshed out around them, they will understand the context of it.
Of course, that doesn't necessarily work if they are just running into this guy for the first time and it's very early on.
For that, do not be afraid to have fear checks or intimidation checks. Now, those DO NOT need to result in control over the players but they can experience it just like they can experience anything else in the world through their senses.
For those that are effected you describe thusly - "...you can feel something palpably dangerous about this being. The clanking of his armor is not metal on metal but the sound of souls quietly shrieking as if ghosts bound the steel rather than leather. A primal feeling of 'wrongness' comes over you when confronted by this...thing and a little voice in the back of your head tells you 'you shouldn't be here'."
I had to do something similar for the rogue in my group when he was the only one to fail a mummy's fear-aura. The important thing when imparting information like that is to give the person an INFORMED description. Not just "you're scared of him"...that is too little information and it immediately hijacks the persons character. note in the description given, all that is told to the player is WHAT they feel, not HOW they feel about it. The player is still more than capable of saying "This thing needs to die! Kill it!". And, at that point, it is their decision what they do about it. It is their choice to make after weighing their options.
However, if they want to ask you more questions about it to get a better gauge, feel free to let them know...but do not just say things like "This guy's so uber-strong!". It has to be more evocative. Paint a picture of the thing they're confronted with..engage as many senses as you can.
Ultimately, however, the decision lies with the player.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:15AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2009
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OMG THEY KILLED BORK! His older brother Gork will have his revenge!
So dat's wut 'appened to Bork! 'e wasn't proppa and orky enuff to be one uv da godz like Gork 'n' Mork!
WAAAGH!
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls
The Silent God of the House of Trolls
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:30AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />If I could not tell the difference at all, why should it make a difference to me as a diner (or a player)? That's why I eat meat, not quorn. When they make a meat-replacement substance that actually tastes like meat I will happily switch and wouldn't care which was served to me.
What difference? You paid for it.
Unless you like paying lobster-prices for chicken dinners.
But if (to my taste buds) that was a lobster, what does it matter that it wasn't?
What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
The precise opposite, if a thing looks like a thing and smells like a thing and taste like a thing, it doesn't matter that it isn't actual that thing.
So dat's wut 'appened to Bork! 'e wasn't proppa and orky enuff to be one uv da godz like Gork 'n' Mork!
WAAAGH!
Glad someone got the referrence, I couldn't think of other suitably orky names.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:31AM
#46
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />But if (to my taste buds) that was a lobster, what does it matter that it wasn't?
What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
The precise opposite, if a thing looks like a thing and smells like a thing and taste like a thing, it doesn't matter that it isn't actual that thing.
Yes. Yes it does. Why would the PRECISE OPPOSITE of a true statement (like your rose statement) be true? That makes no sense.
So dat's wut 'appened to Bork! 'e wasn't proppa and orky enuff to be one uv da godz like Gork 'n' Mork!
WAAAGH!
Glad someone got the referrence, I couldn't think of other suitably orky names.
DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:35AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2010
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This was stated - "The issue here was deciding upfront what the orc was "supposed" to be. A DM doesn't have that kind of control. An encounter that's "supposed" to be easy can be very hard, and vice versa." My Reply: Yes they do have such control, the DMs control everything in the game, they even choose to give up the control.To say otherwise is misleading and trying to influence people by stating they don't have control, stated as if that is a fact even beyond an opinion.This was stated - "This is not my first time being a DM, but the first time in 20 some odd years." My Reply:ght as well be your first time then.
http://advanceddnd2edrevamp.proboards.com/
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:36AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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My argument was poorly formatted there, but you didn't rebut it.
If you what you are served tastes like lobster and smells like lobster and cost the same amount a lobster, how are you any worse off than being served a lobster dinner?
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:42AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
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My english is hard enough normally but when you make examples that have nothing to do about D&D (?lobsters?) it is even harder. It also makes you look foolish and take away from discussion. If you have example, can it be about D&D?
Also, to Condor: No, the DM does not have all the control. The players have all the control. The DM is also a player. He get a little more say but only by the consent of the players. Equals.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:50AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2010
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When you are talking about broad concepts (in this case, the illusion of choice) that effect DnD, sometimes there are easier examples to use than actual DnD ones. It's not my fault that English is not your first language, for most people who frequent these forum it is, and they would understand the discussion at hand.
If you want to discredit my argument go ahead, but don't attack me as a person.
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