|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 3:25PM
#11
|
Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
|
Not more detailed information, but more vibrant description. Instead of 'Dominate' 'can control your mind through its alluring gaze/slimy tentacles/whatever', for instance.
However, there does come a point when you can only do so much. If he's not happy having got all the information about a critter in the most interesting way, then he's never going to be.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 3:44PM
#12
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
|
Not more detailed information, but more vibrant description. Instead of 'Dominate' 'can control your mind through its alluring gaze/slimy tentacles/whatever', for instance.
However, there does come a point when you can only do so much. If he's not happy having got all the information about a critter in the most interesting way, then he's never going to be.
Ok, I'll give that a try and see what happens. Thanks much for your input ! I appreciate it.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 3:47PM
#13
|
Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2001
|
The problem is that when it comes to knowledge checks (nature, arcana, religion, etc) this players character excells at getting high results.
This is not a problem. This is an opportunity. It is an in-game justification for anyone at the table knowing anything about the monsters. I like it when the scholar in the party gets a high roll, because I can very quickly strike a bit of fear into everyone as I recite the powers.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 3:52PM
#14
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
|
The problem is that when it comes to knowledge checks (nature, arcana, religion, etc) this players character excells at getting high results.
This is not a problem. This is an opportunity. It is an in-game justification for anyone at the table knowing anything about the monsters. I like it when the scholar in the party gets a high roll, because I can very quickly strike a bit of fear into everyone as I recite the powers.
And that's what I do, the problem, if you read through the rest of the post, is that the player is unhappy with this. Not me. He's unhappy that he constantly gets high results for his knowledge check rolls and most if not all of the information.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 4:31PM
#15
|
Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2012
|
The player created a problem for himself that he can't solve himself? That is weird, jaja.
Knowledge checks are strange. Its like DM create some informacion and then you hide it and if they roll for it and succeed, you give it to them. If they never roll or dont succeed, this is a waste. But what this player is saying is he wants to waste some of that information by not succeeding all the time? What is the benefit to anybody? To know something is interesting because it mean you can act on it. To not know means nothing.
In a game that I play in sometimes the DM makes us state an actoin based on knowledge checks and then we roll to see if the action is successful based on this knowledge. It is like a check to say if the knowledge is correct or not insted of if you know the knowledge or not. If you have success in the roll then you were right about the knowledge and your action is successful too. It makes the knowledge check have more value I think and also when you fail it is better result because something can happen instead of "no you don't know anything." That is boring.
So maybe you can just give him all the information he wants or needs but when he actually rolls is when he is acting with this information. Then you can make the DCs higher or lower if it harder or easier.
I dont know if this helps but maybe gives you some ideas.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 5:00PM
#16
|
Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2006
|
And that's what I do, the problem, if you read through the rest of the post, is that the player is unhappy with this. Not me. He's unhappy that he constantly gets high results for his knowledge check rolls and most if not all of the information.
"Doc. It hurts when I do this." "Then stop doing that."
If your player is frustrated that he always succeeds his checks, it seems that simplest answer would be to tone down the skill optimatization.
Though it sounds to me that the problem your player as expressed is only a symptom of a bigger, more fundamental problem. So it's introspection time.
Your player, not you, needs to figure out why he feels the way he does. He needs to seriously ask himself why he is so frustrated at succeeding at what he is invested so much to succeed at? Or to tackle the same query from a different direction, what goal(s) was he attempting to obtain from kill optimization that is currently not being fulfilled. Then, only after he has a solid answer to the previous, he needs to then ask himself what could possibly be done at the game table, either on his part and/or your part, to better the situation.
And with the actual problem identified, it should be a relatively simple thing to address it.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 5:07PM
#17
|
Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
|
He's unhappy that he constantly gets high results for his knowledge check rolls and most if not all of the information.
The knowledge checks should not be the challenge. Indeed at that level, I would likely never have him roll (i.e. just provide the information), and provide a challenge via other means.
Now, if the player simply desires knowledge related challenges, this can still be done. Example from Raiders of the Lost Ark:
"While deciphering the markings on the headpiece, Indiana and Sallah realize that the Nazis have miscalculated the location of the Well of Souls. Using this to their advantage, they infiltrate the Nazi dig and use the Staff of Ra to determine the location correctly and uncover the Well of Souls, which is filled with snakes. Indiana fends off the snakes and acquires the Ark"
Although this scenario involves knowledge a great deal, very little of the challenge involved knowledge.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 5:27PM
#18
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
|
He's unhappy that he constantly gets high results for his knowledge check rolls and most if not all of the information.
The knowledge checks should not be the challenge. Indeed at that level, I would likely never have him roll (i.e. just provide the information), and provide a challenge via other means.
Now, if the player simply desires knowledge related challenges, this can still be done. Example from Raiders of the Lost Ark:
"While deciphering the markings on the headpiece, Indiana and Sallah realize that the Nazis have miscalculated the location of the Well of Souls. Using this to their advantage, they infiltrate the Nazi dig and use the Staff of Ra to determine the location correctly and uncover the Well of Souls, which is filled with snakes. Indiana fends off the snakes and acquires the Ark"
Although this scenario involves knowledge a great deal, very little of the challenge involved knowledge.
This is an interesting point. I like the idea of adding layers to knowledge skill challenges and the like. If you could, I would appreciate a little more guidance with maybe some examples of using this kind of strategy. If you're game, feel free to PM or post here since others might also find it interesting.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 29, 2012 - 4:30AM
#19
|
Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
|
You say you're worried that raising knowledge DCs will make things unfair to the other players. But how often do they actually want to make those checks, regardless of whether they've got a scholar with them? My players almost never make knowledge checks to identify creatures, for example, not even if they're trained in the required skills.
What I'm trying to say is: if you suspect that the wizard is the only one who'll make a check (Arcana to identify a magical device, for example), you can safely increase the skill DC. If it's an outlandish device created by the gods and the wizard is level 5, there's no way you should use even the hard DC for level 5. Level 15 sounds more like it. I mean, even if the cleric is also trained in Arcana, what are the odds he'll recognize an interplanar dreamcatcher from one of the outer planes?
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Nov 29, 2012 - 6:19AM
#20
|
Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2012
|
Also remember that knowledge checks don't mean absolute knowledge. There's little chance of a character knowing something that he normally doesn't have access too. For example, a woodsman that extremely proficient in temperate climates will have little chance of knowing absolutely everything about permafrost mountainscapes. He might have heard something from other travelers, but until he's been to such a place and experienced it himself, he won't know everything.
You can implement this by working with the other player to fleshen out his character a bit more. What are his expertices? Where did he grow up? Did he have a profession before becoming an adventurer (such as a Wizard's Apprentice?) That way he can give himself some areas for which his knowledge skills apply without penalties and if he thinks his character wouldn't have access to a specific type of knowledge, he can give himself a -10 or -5 penalty to his skill checks.
The answer is perfect .This knowledge person might know something general but nothing too particular.Also knowledge from practise has huge difference.A ranger has knowledge of forests since he lived,grow up and practised there but a wizard might just have read for forests doesn t mean he can track like a ranger.Though as 12 year old kid (miracle kid probably)he has a lot of limits since he has no experience.Remember that in such checks details can make huge difference .Why giving details to someone who s not specialized with the current subject.Even ancient mages with high general knowledges don t know everything.
|
|
|
