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6 months ago ::
Nov 27, 2012 - 10:24AM
#11
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Oma, under Use Magic Device it states: Emulate an Ability Score
To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check
So all a Rogue needs to do is emulate the ability score as desired.
Also as a staff is a spell trigger item there is no rule saying the user must meet the minimum ability score to cast the spell, just that it uses the wielder's ability score to determine the effects, just as a Wizard with Int 11 can use a Wand of Fireballs. The creator of the sttaff handles the minimum CL and Ability requirements. It only uses the Ability Modifier to determine the spell's save DC. But even if the DM insisted upon the Ability being high enough the above rule to Emulate an Ability Score would be used.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 27, 2012 - 10:38AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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Oma, under Use Magic Device it states:
Emulate an Ability Score
To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check
So all a Rogue needs to do is emulate the ability score as desired.
Also as a staff is a spell trigger item there is no rule saying the user must meet the minimum ability score to cast the spell, just that it uses the wielder's ability score to determine the effects, just as a Wizard with Int 11 can use a Wand of Fireballs. The creator of the sttaff handles the minimum CL and Ability requirements. It only uses the Ability Modifier to determine the spell's save DC. But even if the DM insisted upon the Ability being high enough the above rule to Emulate an Ability Score would be used.
sorry the rule are for scrolls only not staff read it.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 27, 2012 - 2:22PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2011
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it nowhere stated, that you need the key ability minimum to cast the spell from a staff. It's only stated, that ur key ability is used for the DC. That you need a minimum INT or CHA is stated in the Spellcasting feature of the caster class, so you dont have to apply this rule to staffs. As stated in the SRD "Because they use the wielder’s ability score to set the save DC for the spell, spells from a staff are often harder to resist". The important part here is the often, so it means, there are cases, where its not harder to resist, so with a lower DC then the same spell from a scroll or a Wand
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6 months ago ::
Nov 27, 2012 - 3:02PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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it nowhere stated, that you need the key ability minimum to cast the spell from a staff. It's only stated, that ur key ability is used for the DC. That you need a minimum INT or CHA is stated in the Spellcasting feature of the caster class, so you dont have to apply this rule to staffs. As stated in the SRD "Because they use the wielder’s ability score to set the save DC for the spell, spells from a staff are often harder to resist". The important part here is the often, so it means, there are cases, where its not harder to resist, so with a lower DC then the same spell from a scroll or a Wand
but the use magic divice don't let you emulate an ability score in staff and the rule is that you need use your own key ability in spells and a character that dont cast spells dont have key ability in spells.
Emulate Ability Score
To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the
appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom
for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells).
Your effective ability score, appropriate to the class you’re
emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll, is
your Use Magic Device check result –15. If you already have
a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need
to make this check.
At last if your DM let use an ability score you need use CHA as the natural ability score for spells
or the ability score of the class that make the item
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 8:14AM
#15
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Oma again you are wrong. Because nowhere under the rules does it bar Charisma Based casters from using Scrolls, Wands, Staves etc made by Inteligent casters, or vice versa. Point of fact, a Sorceror can cast a spell from a scroll written by a Wizard, and a Wizard can cast a spell from a scroll written by a Sorceror.
So the Rogue is free to emulate the Ability score of his choice to use the item, not that it matters. Also the Key ability for spells is Int/Wis/Cha, all characters have Inteligence. It's rediculous to say they lack the key ability of Int/Wis/Cha because of their class. And the UMD states that if a rogue already has a high enough score in that ability they don't need to emulate it.
And Nowhere is it stated that you need the key ability score to cast a spell from a Staff. Just like nowhere is it stated that you need the right ability score to cast a spell from a Wand. (and the staff uses the same rule to cast as the wand)
This isn't like a Scroll, which is a Spell Completion item (requiring that you are able to cast it and have the ability score/level to do so) A Staff is a Spell Trigger item and it states impicitely under Spell Triggered Items that "Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells"
There is no restrictions to the Rogue's Inteligence score to Cast a level 4 spell from a Wand, despite the need for an ability score of 14 to cast a level 4 spell, a Rogue with Inteligence of 8 can use a Wand with UMD DC of 20. A level 1 Wizard with 11 Inteligence can use Wand of Fireballs despite fireball needing an ability score of 13, Caster level of 5 to cast normally.
The Rogue therefore could use a Staff with a DC of 20 for the minimum caster level, albeit with a low Save DC.
The Rogue using a Staff of Fire, CL 8, with an Inteligence and Charisma of 8, Would make a DC 20 roll to cast a Fireball 8d6 damage, Reflex save (10+level 3 spell -1 Ability)
If the Rogue UMD +17 wanted, he could Emulate a Higher Class Level and Ability Score. He would make the Following Rolls:
Use the Staff: DC 20
Emulate A high Int, Rolls D20+17, gets 31 less 15 is 16 Inteligence (+3)
Emulate CL 10, makes a DC 30 roll.
If he makes those rolls he can Cast a Fireball 10d6 Damage, Reflex of 16 (10+level 3 spell + 3 ability) to save
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 8:32AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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again read UMD and tell me in what part say that you can emulate an ability score for a staff, in the Rule comependium say the same, the emulate ability score only work in scrolls.
quote it please
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 9:14AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
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I've got a better idea, Oma. You quote where it says you can't. Can a rogue use UMD to cast from a staff? Yes. Can a rogue use UMD to emulate a certain caster level? Yes. Can a rogue use UMD to emulate a needed ability score? Yes. YOU QUOTE where it says that they can't all be used together, m'kay, pumpkin?
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 9:18AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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I've got a better idea, Oma. You quote where it says you can't. Can a rogue use UMD to cast from a staff? Yes. Can a rogue use UMD to emulate a certain caster level? Yes. Can a rogue use UMD to emulate a needed ability score? Yes. YOU QUOTE where it says that they can't all be used together, m'kay, pumpkin?
then you are saying that you can kill any player with rolling a d4 because in any part say you can't???
the rule is clear that UMD to Emulate an Ability Score is only for scrolls if work like you say then a rouge can use it to Emulate a Great STR score to use a Magical melee weapon and deal more damage
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 9:28AM
#19
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Oma, Use a Scroll is under a seperate sub-heading from Emulate an Ability Score (which can be used for any number of things) The Sub-heading for Emulate an Ability Score just uses a scroll as an example and really what you are most likely to use it for. This is the same as how the sub-heading for Use a Scroll and Use a Wand are actually only using a scroll or wand as an example, and specifically states for example under them This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.
This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs
The same rules can be applied to other items, not just scrolls and wands, but any applicable Magic Item. Scrolls and Wands are simply used as the most commonly available items at any level. In fact a scroll is the most likely magic item for a level 1 character to possess.
So there you go, Emulating an Ability Score is nor limited to only scrolls.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 9:31AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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Oma, Use a Scroll is under a seperate sub-heading from Emulate an Ability Score (which can be used for any number of things) The Sub-heading for Emulate an Ability Score just uses a scroll as an example and really what you are most likely to use it for.
This is the same as how the sub-heading for Use a Scroll and Use a Wand are actually only using a scroll or wand as an example, and specifically states for example under them
This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.
This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs
The same rules can be applied to other items, not just scrolls and wands, but any applicable Magic Item. Scrolls and Wands are simply used as the most commonly available items at any level. In fact a scroll is the most likely magic item for a level 1 character to possess.
So there you go, Emulating an Ability Score is nor limited to only scrolls.
yes you can TRIGGER the Staff with UMD but you can't emulate an ability score
as example a bard can use UMD to use a staff using her CHA and the CL too if he like
Emulate ability score dont have any special note like this in the CR or the DMG
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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