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6 months ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 2:29PM #1
Seeron
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 213

So i have a question again. Google and search function gave me different answers, and i didnt found anything in the FAQ or Books to it.


When i Use a Staff with Use Magic Device, i first have to make a UMD check against a DC 20, like for a wand. But can I use UMD to emulate a higher INT or Casterlvl in conjunction with a Staff. 


For example, i first roll for Using the Staff DC 20. Then i make a role to emulate a Class Feature (lvl in class then = roll - 20 according to SRD) and for that i role a 35, so my effective lvl would be 15. Then I emulate an ability Score, have a Lucky role and get a 40. My Emulated Ability score would now be roll - 15 = 25.


So would i cast a Spell from a Staff then with a casterlevel of 15 and an Int score of 25?


Greetings


Seeron


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6 months ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 3:49PM #2
Oma012
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2011
Posts: 1,795
sorry as standard you can't use UMD to active staffs, only scrolls and wands
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 4:39PM #3
MrCustomer
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2,385
Sorry, as standard, read the books Oma.

If you read the rule books properly, you will see that Staffs, like wands are spell triggered items, with the difference being that staffs contain higher level spells and a wider variety of spells, as well as being able to use the wielder's CL and relevant feats to determine the spell's DC etc.


The entry in the PHB states under the Use Magic Device skill

Use a Wand

Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs



Meaning specifically You can use to to activate staffs. A specific DC isn't give, but like wands it would be a minimum DC of 20.

I would be inclined to make Staffs DC 20 + Caster Level, but there is no real specific given, so technically it is just a DC 20 like a wand as far as the rules are concerned. Casters only use their own CL etc if it is higher then the staff's minimum. You could attempt to use the scroll at a higher Caster Level and emulate a higher INT and any number of feats to inhance the spell, You would just make the appropriate rolls, so, yes it would work pretty much the way you described. 

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 9:28PM #4
Seeron
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 213
thx for the fast answer.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 7:05AM #5
MrCustomer
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2,385
Keep in mind that as staves use the Ability modifier and relevant feats of the user, that the standard DC 20 roll for using it will be rather on the weaker side, so to use effectively you will basically have to do the emulation rolls or else have very low DC spells (not always a big deal)

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 8:25AM #6
Seeron
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 213
another question, when i cast for example fireball, which appears on the sorcerer and the wizard spell list? can i choose to use cha or int? or is the relevant stat of the creator used (so charisma, if a sorcerer created it)? and casterlvl would prob be the minimum casterlevel of the staff (so CL9 for Grade 5 spells), am I right?
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:14AM #7
MrCustomer
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2,385
Seeron, Yes you can choose to use either Int or Charisma in that case, the stat used by the creator isn't important.


The Caster level would probably be the minimum used for the staff, for the DC 20 to use (just like a wand) However you could attempt to emulate a higher caster level if you wished.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:26AM #8
Oma012
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2011
Posts: 1,795
O is right but the rules of Staff need that you use your own ability score that you use to set the DC of yours own Spells then he need a key ability score for spells and a standard rouge don't have it and spells not are a class feature then a standard rouge can't emulate it, he need become a prestige class with access to spell to can use a staff.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:51AM #9
MrCustomer
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2,385
 Oma, please read the rules for Use Magic Device, Rogues can use it to cast spells from wands, scrolls and staves despite not having access to the spells, that is the whole purpose of Use Magic Device. They don't need to have spells as a class feature to use spell triggered items.

Rogues and Bards with high Int or Wisdom scores are common place, even so if they need a particular ability score then they can emulate it, as per the rules outlined in the Use Magical Device entry.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 10:02AM #10
Oma012
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2011
Posts: 1,795

Nov 27, 2012 -- 9:51AM, MrCustomer wrote:

 Oma, please read the rules for Use Magic Device, Rogues can use it to cast spells from wands, scrolls and staves despite not having access to the spells, that is the whole purpose of Use Magic Device. They don't need to have spells as a class feature to use spell triggered items.

Rogues and Bards with high Int or Wisdom scores are common place, even so if they need a particular ability score then they can emulate it, as per the rules outlined in the Use Magical Device entry.


a bard can do it, bot a rouge can't because dont have key ability score as you say he can use wands and scroll but staff have different rules as saying in her description

Staffs use the wielder’s ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of a staff if it’s higher than the caster level of the staff.

"This means that staffs are far more potent in the hands of a powerful spellcaster. Because they use the wielder’s ability score to set the save DC for the spell, spells from a staff are often harder to resist than ones from other magic items, which use the minimum ability score required to cast the spell. Not only are aspects of the spell dependant on caster level (range, duration, and so on) potentially higher, but spells from a staff are harder to dispel and have a better chance of overcoming a target’s spell resistance."

Then he can active the item with a score of / then the spell can't be casted because you need the minimum ability score to cast the spell at last.

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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