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Switch to Forum Live View Legends & Lore: Class Design Concepts
6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 8:57AM #401
SleepsInTraffic
Date Joined: Feb 12, 2009
Posts: 4,600

Nov 27, 2012 -- 8:33AM, Saelorn wrote:

Nov 27, 2012 -- 3:21AM, Ambiguous wrote:

If the dice said "1" and the DM says "it was a 20" it's a lie, but if it's a "1" and the DM says "you score a remarkable blow" that isn't a lie. It's allowing the role of DM as storyteller to take precedence over the role of DM as rules enforcer.


This is exactly the sort of thing which I find dis-honest, and which calls into question the whole point of playing the game in the first place.  The rules of the game, by which we've all agreed to abide, clearly state that a 1 is a miss on attack rolls.  Sure, my character would rather score a remarkable blow than whiff entirely, but why should I care about any of my character's successes or failures if I know that there's been a safety net in place this entire time, and that the laws of physics have taken back-seat to narrative causality?

If you're going to house rule it that the dice are not the final word, and that sometimes the DM will just make up whatever sounds like a better story in violation of the dice, then that's something you need to declare ahead of time so that you don't waste anyone's time.





The DM's Guide in fact tells you to do this:


Ignoring the Dice
If you’re an experienced gamer, you have seen
the following situation happen before. Rachel,
playing her halfling cleric, delivers a perfect
speech rallying the barbarian tribes to aid a
besieged city. When she’s done, everyone
erupts in spontaneous applause. When she
rolls her Charisma check, though, the die comes
up a natural 1 and points to failure.
As a DM, remember that the dice are like the
rules. They’re a tool to help keep the action
moving. At any time, you can decide that a
player’s action is automatically successful, even
if the DC would normally be somewhere above
20. By the same token, a bad plan or
unfortunate circumstances can transform even
the easiest task into an impossibility.
The dice are neutral arbiters. They come into
play when success and failure are far from
clear. Think of them as impartial judges, ready
to dispense a yes or no answer based on a
character’s bonus and the DC you have selected.
The dice don’t run the game. You do.
As a DM, you should think about the role the
dice play in your game. Do you prefer the
vagaries of fate, or do you prefer to reward a
good effort with success and a poor one with
failure? Use your style to help guide when you
call for rolls and when you simply declare
success or failure.


 
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:03AM #402
Ahearn_Condon
Date Joined: Dec 12, 2009
Posts: 142
I'm actually quite ok with lieing about the resultsof the dice sometimes. When a fight has become tougher then expected, or easier then expected.  And even occasionally when something trully bad or life ending is about to happen to a character. Though in that instance I will also tend to make sure those dice are rolled in full view of everyone if I don't care how things go down. At which point I let everyone know the consequences of the roll, good or bad.
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:13AM #403
hollbk01
Date Joined: Feb 5, 2011
Posts: 255

Nov 27, 2012 -- 9:03AM, Ahearn_Condon wrote:

I'm actually quite ok with lieing about the resultsof the dice sometimes. When a fight has become tougher then expected, or easier then expected. And even occasionally when something trully bad or life ending is about to happen to a character. Though in that instance I will also tend to make sure those dice are rolled in full view of everyone if I don't care how things go down. At which point I let everyone know the consequences of the roll, good or bad.



Yeah, sometimes I eff up as a DM.  Usually if I misjudge how much the PCs can handle.  Then I'll fudge.  Also I'm uncomfortable with absolute statements such as "I never lie."  

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:44AM #404
greatfrito
  • YMTS: XXIX Winner
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 8,270

Nov 27, 2012 -- 8:33AM, Saelorn wrote:

and which calls into question the whole point of playing the game in the first place.



For you, perhaps, but I've never actually met a player that has cared whether I, as the DM, am being completely 100% "truthful" with them.  I've played with a DM that played everything as he prepared it, and "as it rolled", and while there was some novelty there it really highlighted the flaws with a game so steeped in random numbers.

As others have now pointed out, the game is designed with "fudging" in mind.  While you can certainly play without it (and have a good time, if that's what you're into), I'd offer that a D&D without any "fudging" whatsoever - that is the "inauthentic D&D experience".

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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.

No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).

(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)

A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)
A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 9:46AM #405
Bluenose
Date Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 841

Nov 27, 2012 -- 8:00AM, Garthanos wrote:

Nov 27, 2012 -- 7:22AM, Bluenose wrote:

Nov 27, 2012 -- 6:56AM, ChrisCarlson wrote:

Nov 27, 2012 -- 6:52AM, Garthanos wrote:

Excalibur was more a token/mark of rulership through which arthur was able to unlock his awesome and occured early enough that he wouldnt actually have invested.. arguably it was the start of the story.


So... it could have just as easily been an axe?




How many level ones do you give their artifact caliber signature weapon to?   this is D&D and you just decided the characters chain of focus and style for the forseeable future,it depends on the player "know thy players.." but in some sense you might want to make sure  if that is how they want to take the character


Axes don't have the semi-magical kudos of a good sword. They're a commoners weapon. All the top heroes need a top sword to prove it. 

Except Hercules. He had a bloody big club. 



Oh and  spears can be awesome (ask Balsa)..
also Odin but he did use both a seriously awesome sword and spear.

Axes can certainly carry great mojo...




Ask Cuchullain about spears at some point too. Though I'll bet there are more named swords in myth/fiction than there are names for every other type of weapon.

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling,
And took their wages, and are dead.

Playing: Mongoose Traveller
GMing: Barbarians of Lemuria
Planning: Reclaiming Neverwinter, a 4e D&D campaign
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 10:04AM #406
bawylie
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Posts: 963
Named blowguns?
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 10:06AM #407
hollbk01
Date Joined: Feb 5, 2011
Posts: 255

Nov 27, 2012 -- 10:04AM, bawylie wrote:

Named blowguns?



what about named spiked chains?

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 10:06AM #408
bawylie
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Posts: 963
Behold the legendary alchemist's fire: "Flask of pantalones en fuego."
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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 10:07AM #409
ChrisCarlson
Date Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 741
Ol' Painless... was a named "ranged weapon"...

Does that count?

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6 months ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 11:01AM #410
Steely_Dan
Date Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 8,634
I thought Excalibur is what made Arthur so bad-ass (nothing to do with specialisation in swords), that Lancelot could whip his ass with any weapon, if Arty didn't have Excalibur?
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