|
7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 11:15PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2009
|
I have a party of six level 9 characters that probably do about 100 DPR (probability weighted). this was based on fully estimating actual DPR at level 7 and swagging the increases since then, but its fairly close. Most of the party is melee, so there are limited focus fire opportunities, and as such encounters tend to run long. The players are pretty happy taking skill focus feats over damage feats, and making similar non-charop tradeoffs, even when presented with suggestions on how to tweak their DPR.
I'm going to try the doubling damage and halving hitpoints thing, but I kind of wonder if there is some other mechanical shift I should make. Obviously a party of three cleric|rangers and three lazylords would do double the damage my guys could drop - should there be a different gearing on encounter toughness? I don't want to reduce the exp / session. I've tried to move to having half of total exp come from non-combat, but I want to target having encounters that last ~5 rounds, and with six PCs at level 9 800 HP is not unusual...
thanks
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 12:31AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
|
You could also try replacing some of the standard monsters with groups of minions, so damage isn't as important. Maybe use lower level encounters. Level -1, maybe?
Though the fact they all prefer melee might make minions more of a hassle than help.
I think you've got the right idea with making a lot of the EXP coming from non-combat sources. If the group prefer taking skill focuses, it's a good idea to gear the game towards skills. Catering to the party's strengths rather than punishing them for their weaknesses is the approach I usually encourage.
Gunmage, a homebrew arcane striker. (Heroic Tier playtest ready.) GDocs link. (More up to date.)
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 12:40AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
|
Monsters and Encounters of the level of the character are not meant for optimized characters, my group is not min/maxed at all, but are very well build character with awesome group tactics and synergy, i send stuff 3 or 4 levels higher than themat around 1.3 standard monster per character (in full party of 6, i have a budget of 8 standards)
This isn't a MMORPG dungeon raiding, where the encounters are tunned for min/max in mind
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 5:47AM
#4
|
|
|
Just use lots of minions with a single standard or elite as a leader. These sorts of combats can be fun even if they are techinically a cakewalk (although minion artillery is often a big threat).
Cheers Imruphel aka Scrivener of Doom
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 7:52AM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2009
|
Thanks for the ideas. I'll try halving hitpoints and doubling damage, and then try swapping out half the standards for minions. I won't do both at once!  . I want to try to stick with the same XP budget, and avoid technically softening the encounters, but I do want to try to get to a 5 round mean encounter, and 800 hit point encounters with 100 DPR is a recipe for boredom. These guys have been playing the characters since level 1, so I don't think party synergies will change unless they find some new strategies in Paragon (always possible).
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 11:12AM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
|
Another thing is giving them extra feats that they have to choose for combat purposes. Allowing them storyline stuff to train with a master weaponsfighter to get one of a short list of feats that are all Optimized feats. This way your players feel like they have a choice and aren't missing out on that +2 arcana feat they really wanted. Granted thats more of a long-term fix than a quick one but it can help especially progressing into Paragon. Don't feel worried about giving your players extra stuff (give them extra items / extra feats / access to boons) when they are not concerned about optimizing. You will have a lot more free-reign to be able to give them randomly strong stuff if you know nobody is going to scour the internet for a way to make it give them +30 to damage rolls.
Edit: Another thing with the minions is you can swap out "2 hit" minions for normal minions at a rate of 2 "2 hitters" to 3 normals. 2 hit minions do a very small dice roll of damage and take 2 hits to kill unless a single hit is big enough to turn them into mash (set the threshold for 20-25 at that level depending on party make-up).
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 12:00PM
#7
|
|
|
Just use lower level monsters/encounters.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 2:27PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
|
I'd throw in more environmental hazards as well NPCs plotting different things as well as making lower level monsters monologue a bit more  There's a sense of accomplishment offing a lippy goblin.
Gamer Chiropractor - Hafner Chiropractic 305 S. Kipling st,Suite C-2, Lakewood, Co 80226 www.hafnerchiropractic.com
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 8:08PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2011
|
The DMG classification was meant for optimised Parties. So if the Party is non optimised, consider how long you want the fight to last, and adjust accordingly. Math-wise (boring...), at 100 DPR Probability-adjusted, and assuming you don't want combat to last over 6 rounds, you can use 500 HP as a measurement (ie 5 rounds, with 1 round leeway for divided fire and other things that result in Players not attacking) With 6 Party members, each Standard Monster should have about 83 HP. That comes to about a Lv 7 Standard Monster. You can try using Lv 9 Brutes with somewhat lower NAD defenses and about 100 HP. The damage is high to keep the threat, but the defenses are low. 1-2 Artillery / Lurkers are also a good option, as they have Low HP. Artillery may be difficult to reach for a Melee heavy party though, and their poor Optimisation probably means the Artillery will be hitting often. And if you don't attack with them to try to avoid a TPK, well, it seems weird. If you want to moderate the flow of the game so as to prevent unexpected TPKs, Lurkers might be better. Stick to Melee Lurkers so your Party has the chance to get rid of them. Be prepared for swingy combat though, as Brutes lay out high damage and Lurkers can do so as well. Most Lurkers have a "disappear until 1 round later" so you can use those mechanisms to prevent the Lurkers from attacking every round. They are also very handy to end Grind, as usually after most of the other Monsters are dead, Lurkers should simply run away. ============= Without turning to Minions since someone already suggested that, here are some house-rule possibilities. a) Run with Lv 9-10 Monsters, reduce all their Defenses by 2 and their HP by 2 per Level (ie 18). Award XP normally b) Select a Damage threshold. You are a hardworking enough DM to get 100 DPR I guess, so aim for a high damage value that a Striker has about 25% of attaining. Run with Lv 9-10 Mooks (Creatures with normal Defenses) that have that number of HP, so 1 hit from a non-Striker bloodies it, and a Striker has a 20-30% chance of killing it outright. Each Mook has an XP Budget equal to HALF that of a Standard monster. If you wish to keep threat high, each Mook should do the normal amount of damage for a Standard Monster. This means the fight is more dangerous at the beginning but easier later on, as all of them hit hard and there are many of them. If you wish to keep threat moderate, each Mook does about 20-30% less damage than a Standard Creature. At Level 9 that translates to roughly 4-5 less points of damage per Hit. You can use the Low Dmg expression in this incredibly useful DM Sheet : slyflourish.com/master_dm_sheet.pdfFor the house-rule possibilities, try out at Level 9-10 first, if the play goes smoothly you can gradually increase the Level. Hope this helps.
 
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 27, 2012 - 6:57AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2012
|
My suggestion is since i understand you want to raise the damage of your party and are good levels ,to make a mission that you will give them weapons that do extra damage.Like +1d6 fire/ice/poison etc.This depends on you and your imagination .I did that to my party and now they are having great fun since there is no wizard in party for high damage .Try to make it balanced though and not op damage.Even and extra 1d4 damage or an belt that gives strength will be great.
|
|
|