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Switch to Forum Live View Good, Evil, Neutral. They should keep alignments as simple as possible.
7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 6:48PM #51
TheCosmicKid
Date Joined: Sep 5, 2009
Posts: 769
Lawful people want the world to be predictable.
Chaotic people want the world to be unpredictable.
L/C-neutral people don't care whether the world is predictable or not.

Good people selflessly help innocents.
Evil people selfishly hurt innocents.
G/E-neutral people avoid hurting innocents but don't go out of their way to help either.

I've found that simple definitions like these suffice for 95% of cases in a heroic fantasy game.  For the borderline stuff, just pick one that seems close (or when in complete doubt, call it true neutral) and play on.  It doesn't have to be complicated.  This is a game, not a philosophy seminar.  I was a philosophy student, and I've mostly played with philosophy and law students, and still I've never encountered a serious problem with the alignment system at the table.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 6:52PM #52
Steely_Dan
Date Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 8,628

Nov 21, 2012 -- 6:22PM, Arithezoo wrote:

My spider sense is telling me that it is a case of hostile arguing for the sake of hostile arguing.




Ha, my normal person sense is telling me of a hostile ganging up of like-minded posters who want to cause friction with another poster who is not on their little program...

...bless... 

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 7:08PM #53
Herrozerro
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 5,133

Nov 21, 2012 -- 5:27PM, Steely_Dan wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 5:21PM, Dwarfslayer wrote:

Nah screw you





...screw me...wow...such umbrage, I think I will...no one quite pleases one's self like one's self...thanks...


As for alignment, seriously, there is so much to dig about it, go for it, go for the gold, baby! 




Reread the quote, he is saying that you are saying "nah screw you, go read a book" when confronted to explain your position.

Play whatever the **** you want.

Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot.

Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 7:10PM #54
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,524
If by 'simple' you mean 'nonexistant', then yeah, I can get behind that.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 7:32PM #55
Rs06
Date Joined: Nov 12, 2012
Posts: 104
The dynamics of Law, Chaos, Good, and Evil should be covered in alignment.  I feel eliminating the Law/chaos aspect of it, would do a disservice to the game.  Just my take, though...
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 8:05PM #56
Shasarak
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2007
Posts: 4,098

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:55PM, Dwarfslayer wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:51PM, Steely_Dan wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Never to me and mine, this must be a you and yours dilemma.

I find it bright and illuminating.




Okay, then you should have no problem providing me an unambiguous definition of what makes a character lawful, chaotic or neutral.




Check out a Players Handbook.

Does not really matter what edition.

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 8:23PM #57
MeCorva
Date Joined: Jun 6, 2008
Posts: 770
The complaints around alignment and mechanics always seem to resolve around a dm "punishing" a player for not playing to alignment.   This can happen even if the alignment is meant to be fluff - the dm can always reduce rewards because the player isn't playing to alignment. 
But, those who like alignment point out that it can be a valuable tool to help get into a characters motivations and under their skin.   Which means a compromise is trivial - make it an optional background element.  After all, adventuring is such a life changing experience, even the holiest paladin may find himself cutting corners in the name of his g*ds justice.   And, for those who see morality as a complex context specific attribute, by calling it a background the player is explicitly allowed to play the character against background if there are mitigating circumstances.  Use the unaligned for any one who chooses to not have that background - and make it clear that those people who don't think about morality fall into unaligned - probably being sorta good, but more good to those are friends.  This allows those who don't want to get into a lot of arguments about whether killing disarmed combatants is a good or evil act to just play without feeling punished by their dm.
And, if your a dm who wants to encourage good roleplaying?   Don't argue if something matched a platonic ideal of good vs evil - as the player why the character did something.   Good role players will have an answer, bad ones won't.    Punish players who don't think about their characters actions, not those who make different characters than you would. 

As for me, after playing with someone who wanted his paladin to fall into a "ends justify the means" mindset and see where that lead the character, I can't see using mechanical means to limit the powers.  After all, if someone wandered down that path, but then suddenly lost their abilities one day, they'd change. their tune.   Better to see where the characters limits are without the safety net that their god will just take away their powers if they step too far out of line.   If that means creating a patron devil of fallen paladins, so be it.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:28PM #58
Zaramon
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1,426
I'm probably semi-well known for defending alignment on these boards by now. That in mind, Steely, you absolutely cannot make a claim and then refuse to back it up. Well, you can, but refusing to back it up is a de facto concession of the point.

You also already mis-took a paraphrase of your own words by another poster, as a personal attack on you. You and I may hold somewhat similar views on alignment, but what you have done is at best, dishonest in the extreme.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:28PM #59
evilnos
Date Joined: Sep 7, 2009
Posts: 10
Alignments.... always fun to talk about but always either too fluffy and nearly useless. What is alignment? What's the point of having it on a character sheet? I think that having some kind of system that gives an actual bird's eye view of what the character would most likely do in certain situations would be far more enlightening than the 9 alignments of the past.   


I really like, for example, the virtue/vice system from New World of Darkness. You pick one of the 7 heavenly virtues, one of the 7 deadly sins. Your character gets a bit of a boost for following their virtue and has a hard time resisting their vice. Not suggesting that it's used but something that gives you more about a character would be good....


Personally from some of the conversations that I've heard about this in other threads, I'm staritng to think on a house rule which would involve having someone fill out a questionaire which would be a personality quiz for a character to refer to at all times.... and assign alignments based upon the quiz behind the DM screen and adjust as I go along based on the character's decisions... after all... who really sits down and thinks to themselves: "Am I good? Am I chaotic? Am I evil? What about Neutral?"


... I think I'm rambling now and not really contributing so I'll end my post here and still actually post it, just for fun.      
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:37PM #60
DoctorNecrotic
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 1,097
C'mon, guys!  This thread is about alignment issues and debates.  I wish people would take this stuff to private messages.  And heck, if you don't like someone, just block 'em.  I'll cut the mini-modding out now...  This angst and bickering, I get enough in real life...  Right back, need booze.

Anywho, alignments... yeah.  As I've said, it should be fluff.  Keep the original 9!  The mechanics should be a module...  Not to mention other modules like morality a la WoD.  Perhaps the allegience (already mentioned) or something else like that.  It should be too hard to swap out alignment for something else, yeah?
Disgruntled ghost of the Knights of W.T.F.
(Keep D&D alive, end the edition wars!)

"And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Disclaimer: Most of my posts are based on opinions (and are sometimes humorous, other times inspirational)
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