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Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:47PM, EnglishLanguage wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:42PM, Rs06 wrote:

So, a Paladin would be a holy warrior of a good deity.  But neutral and evil deities say, ah screw it, our devout fighters can just be fighters.  Let's not imbue them with special powers for carrying out our will...

This is why I find the idea of Good only Paladins odd. How did Good deities get the monopoly on heavily armored holy warriors?

My thoughts exactly...here's the thing, though.  Paladin has been traditionally Good/Lawful.  Their spells and abilities reflect that.  If there is a god of thieves, wouldn't you think their holy warrior would have some sneaky abilities?  Perhaps he could cast invisibility as a divine spell...

Nov 20, 2012 -- 7:14PM, Fellstrike wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:43PM, NightsLastHero wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:42PM, Rs06 wrote:

So, a Paladin would be a holy warrior of a good deity.  But neutral and evil deities say, ah screw it, our devout fighters can just be fighters.  Let's not imbue them with special powers for carrying out our will...

No, I'd say in the case of a Paladin being a holy warrior for a good deity you would need another class to represent the neutral guys.


Anti-Paladins actually are the class for evil deities so that is already taken care of.

The exception being if you see Paladins being big enough to ecampass all of that. 

I hate the idea of 3 classes all to do the same thing.

I'd much rather have the Paladin encompass holy warriors of all alignments.

Maybe if we must name it something else and make the 'Paladin' a particular scheme/technique of that class. 

I don't think the classes would be doing the samething. I think there are very easy ways to make them totally different from one another and unique and interesting.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 7:30PM, EnglishLanguage wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:55PM, NightsLastHero wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:49PM, Rs06 wrote:

Misquoted there, as I must have misread the first time.  Thing about Blackguards/dark knights, is that they carry out evil as a Paladin carries out good.  I don't think either HAVE to be a servant of a specific deity.  Hense, my call for the new class...

I agree with this. THis is also why I think there should be a new class.

Why not just make both the Paladin class with two sub-builds builds for the extremes, the Blackguard for Evil and Champion for the Good?

Or anything so we're not going to end up with 4-5 classes that are all exactly the same, just with different alignment requirements?

Why do they have to be exactly the same? or more importantly why would you make the same?

Lets look at the Paladin and the ANti-Paladin. The antil Paladin could get Inflict light wounds (or similar type spell) as an at will ability at first level while the Paladin would get lay on hands 1/day. The actual deity champion might then get somethign to help with combat at first level instead of either of those.

I have toyed aroudn the idea of a paladin having templates (a bit like pathfinder having the ability to swap out certain abilities for other ones) that modify the base class to suit your idea of a paladin rather than individual classes, however I think there is a whole lot of potential adding a new Holy Champion type class. Like a real Avatar of the gods. 

Nov 20, 2012 -- 7:34PM, NightsLastHero wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 7:30PM, EnglishLanguage wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:55PM, NightsLastHero wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 6:49PM, Rs06 wrote:

Misquoted there, as I must have misread the first time.  Thing about Blackguards/dark knights, is that they carry out evil as a Paladin carries out good.  I don't think either HAVE to be a servant of a specific deity.  Hense, my call for the new class...

I agree with this. THis is also why I think there should be a new class.

Why not just make both the Paladin class with two sub-builds builds for the extremes, the Blackguard for Evil and Champion for the Good?

Or anything so we're not going to end up with 4-5 classes that are all exactly the same, just with different alignment requirements?

Why do they have to be exactly the same? or more importantly why would you make the same?

Lets look at the Paladin and the ANti-Paladin. The antil Paladin could get Inflict light wounds (or similar type spell) as an at will ability at first level while the Paladin would get lay on hands 1/day. The actual deity champion might then get somethign to help with combat at first level instead of either of those.

Or they could get a choice of Inflict Light Wounds or Lay on Hands at level 1, and not have any alignment restrictions period. ILW isn't an evil exclusive spell and LOH isn't a good exclusive spell, and there can be justifications for for either side taking the other(evil Paladin might take LOH because they're evil, but they realize assisting your team is still vital to surviving, and heals his allies when he can, while a good Paladin can take Inflict Light Wounds because despite being Good, they're going to punish bad guys with anything they can)