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6 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:37PM
#71
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I don't think sum mean what you think it does...
Thats true - it appears that there are a lot of terms that appear to have different meanings then you would expect.
Tends to happen when terms are used with an incorrect meanings.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th EditionReality Refracted: Social ContractsD & D: A Documentary Kickstarter ( http://kck.st/SyKNzf) 
Dreaming the Impossible Dream
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Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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6 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:39PM
#72
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I don't think sum mean what you think it does...
Thats true - it appears that there are a lot of terms that appear to have different meanings then you would expect.
Tends to happen when terms are used with an incorrect meanings.
Yeah, Zappy, use the correct meaning next time.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
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Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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6 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:51PM
#73
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My 2 cents:
All roleplaying systems are defined by
1: The character classes provided (abilities and goals all combat based with a smidgeon of 'overspecialized-skills'?)
2: The Scenarios presented
If all you have are combat classes and all of the scenarios are miniatures wargame march-around-and-kill-and-loot scenarios, then that's what we get. Next, you still get xp for killing monsters instead of meeting goals. All I can say is what the heck? Really? Is this 1974?
Real innovation occurs when the game system gives the DM scenario design TOOLS and consequence TOOLS on how to do stuff outside of combat and what the benefit is to players. Also, since D&D is the "entry level game" it needs to be presented as to how a DM can do this for a generation of younger gamers who may only conceive of looting and killing.
What tools can be provide that can help new DMs without upsetting experience DMs. Skills Challenges provided a mechanism to handle meeting goals outside of combat, but it cause the exploration and interaction aspect of the game to be restricted unnecessarily. How do you see tools that help new DMs handle out of combat actions that doesn't needlessly restrict them?
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th EditionReality Refracted: Social ContractsD & D: A Documentary Kickstarter ( http://kck.st/SyKNzf)
Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 12:44AM
#74
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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Several months back, someone suggested a method of giving skill challenges a form of "hit points" that could be worn down over time depending on how difficult and/or time-consuming the task was. Damage was inflicted by the margin of success (ie, roll a 14 on a DC 12 check, inflict 2 'damage'). Something like that could add some rules spice to the exploration and interaction pillars.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 7:02AM
#75
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Several months back, someone suggested a method of giving skill challenges a form of "hit points" that could be worn down over time depending on how difficult and/or time-consuming the task was. Damage was inflicted by the margin of success (ie, roll a 14 on a DC 12 check, inflict 2 'damage'). Something like that could add some rules spice to the exploration and interaction pillars.
Yep, that was me. There was a whole thread on it. It fixes most of the problems with skill challenges that people have because it breaks it down from 'X number of successes before 3 failures' into 'defeat these obstacles with these situations, if you fail too many times that particular character is out for the rest of the challenge'
If you failed a roll you took Skill Challenge Hit Point damage. If you reached zero the challenge wasn't over, you were just unable to continue. If you were climbing a cliff, you were stuck. If you were negotiating with a merchant, they no longer trusted what you said or you were flabbergasted and couldn't think of a way to respond. If you were interpreting strange archaic runes, you had a migraine that made you cross eyed when you look at the runes. etc...etc...
Really it solved a lot of problems...
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 8:56AM
#76
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Several months back, someone suggested a method of giving skill challenges a form of "hit points" that could be worn down over time depending on how difficult and/or time-consuming the task was. Damage was inflicted by the margin of success (ie, roll a 14 on a DC 12 check, inflict 2 'damage'). Something like that could add some rules spice to the exploration and interaction pillars.
Yep, that was me. There was a whole thread on it. It fixes most of the problems with skill challenges that people have because it breaks it down from 'X number of successes before 3 failures' into 'defeat these obstacles with these situations, if you fail too many times that particular character is out for the rest of the challenge'
If you failed a roll you took Skill Challenge Hit Point damage. If you reached zero the challenge wasn't over, you were just unable to continue. If you were climbing a cliff, you were stuck. If you were negotiating with a merchant, they no longer trusted what you said or you were flabbergasted and couldn't think of a way to respond. If you were interpreting strange archaic runes, you had a migraine that made you cross eyed when you look at the runes. etc...etc...
Really it solved a lot of problems...
So instead of x number of minion challenges before 3 failures there are elite/solo challenge? Lol that is actually sounds pretty cool.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th EditionReality Refracted: Social ContractsD & D: A Documentary Kickstarter ( http://kck.st/SyKNzf)
Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 10:07AM
#77
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Several months back, someone suggested a method of giving skill challenges a form of "hit points" that could be worn down over time depending on how difficult and/or time-consuming the task was. Damage was inflicted by the margin of success (ie, roll a 14 on a DC 12 check, inflict 2 'damage'). Something like that could add some rules spice to the exploration and interaction pillars.
Yep, that was me. There was a whole thread on it. It fixes most of the problems with skill challenges that people have because it breaks it down from 'X number of successes before 3 failures' into 'defeat these obstacles with these situations, if you fail too many times that particular character is out for the rest of the challenge'
If you failed a roll you took Skill Challenge Hit Point damage. If you reached zero the challenge wasn't over, you were just unable to continue. If you were climbing a cliff, you were stuck. If you were negotiating with a merchant, they no longer trusted what you said or you were flabbergasted and couldn't think of a way to respond. If you were interpreting strange archaic runes, you had a migraine that made you cross eyed when you look at the runes. etc...etc...
Really it solved a lot of problems...
So instead of x number of minion challenges before 3 failures there are elite/solo challenge? Lol that is actually sounds pretty cool.
Yep, I'm putting together a PDF I'm going to put on drivethrurpg.com that details it out and has a number of examples...
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 1:52PM
#78
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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Several months back, someone suggested a method of giving skill challenges a form of "hit points" that could be worn down over time depending on how difficult and/or time-consuming the task was. Damage was inflicted by the margin of success (ie, roll a 14 on a DC 12 check, inflict 2 'damage'). Something like that could add some rules spice to the exploration and interaction pillars.
Yep, that was me. There was a whole thread on it. It fixes most of the problems with skill challenges that people have because it breaks it down from 'X number of successes before 3 failures' into 'defeat these obstacles with these situations, if you fail too many times that particular character is out for the rest of the challenge'
If you failed a roll you took Skill Challenge Hit Point damage. If you reached zero the challenge wasn't over, you were just unable to continue. If you were climbing a cliff, you were stuck. If you were negotiating with a merchant, they no longer trusted what you said or you were flabbergasted and couldn't think of a way to respond. If you were interpreting strange archaic runes, you had a migraine that made you cross eyed when you look at the runes. etc...etc...
Really it solved a lot of problems...
Cool. I couldn't remember what that thread was called or who contributed to it, but I remembered liking the idea.
While reading this thread, I started coming up with my own implementation of the "work system" (since I couldn't remember the specific details you came up with, either). Keeping things simple for Core, every challenge would have a success point total (as determined by the DM with guidance from the DMG) that would "defeat" it. Doing "damage" was determined by the margin of success. "Taking damage" was the margin of failure, and if a character reached the challenge's fail point total (again, up to the DM with help from the DMG), consequences occurred dependent on the nature of the challenge. The more 'forgiving' a challenge was for failure (say, chopping down a tree), the greater the fail point total, while more delicate situations (negotiating with a drow or devil) would have a very narrow margin of error.
The particulars of the challenge (relying on improvised tools or using their Noble background to see the local Baron, for example) would be expressed in terms of circumstance bonuses and penalties to either their rolls or the DC.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 3:28PM
#79
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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Several months back, someone suggested a method of giving skill challenges a form of "hit points" that could be worn down over time depending on how difficult and/or time-consuming the task was. Damage was inflicted by the margin of success (ie, roll a 14 on a DC 12 check, inflict 2 'damage'). Something like that could add some rules spice to the exploration and interaction pillars.
Yep, that was me. There was a whole thread on it. It fixes most of the problems with skill challenges that people have because it breaks it down from 'X number of successes before 3 failures' into 'defeat these obstacles with these situations, if you fail too many times that particular character is out for the rest of the challenge'
If you failed a roll you took Skill Challenge Hit Point damage. If you reached zero the challenge wasn't over, you were just unable to continue. If you were climbing a cliff, you were stuck. If you were negotiating with a merchant, they no longer trusted what you said or you were flabbergasted and couldn't think of a way to respond. If you were interpreting strange archaic runes, you had a migraine that made you cross eyed when you look at the runes. etc...etc...
Really it solved a lot of problems...
I'll tip my cap to this idea as well. This is a nice way to make exploration and interaction more of a game within the game. Nice idea, Lokiare.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 25, 2012 - 4:10PM
#80
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2011
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I think the rules could do with a few more numbers around 'out of combat' scenarios.
For example, speed of movement on horseback/hiking/forced march and how that works if you are in a large group/in formation/in armour/in different terrain.
How long does it take to set up camp, how dangerous is it with/without a rotating guard shift, can the characters setup impromptu fortifications?
What about ships, boats, storms etc? What about a mechanic for tracking the political power/influence/reknown of a player or party?
I think there are other ways to get the players working together, solving problems and roleplaying, outside of combat - and I think its good to streamline combat for this reason, which seems to be the direction.
But the counterside is I think some things need some more fleshing out beyond 'generic skill challenges'. I do believe in the skill challenge system to help add creativity and create mechanics 'on the fly', but currently it seems like its (COMBAT) OR (SKILL CHALLENGES), whereas I think it should be more liek (COMBAT) OR (X) OR (Y)... OR SKILL CHALLENGES
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