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7 months ago  ::  Nov 17, 2012 - 2:04PM #1
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Build:

Warlock 8/Uncanny Trickster 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 2-3/Legacy Champion 6

Some questions:

1)Since Bind Vestige (Naberius) feat doesn't work and neither Strongheart Vest Soulmeld, what's best: Replace 1 level of Warlock for 1 level of Binder or buy/use a item that can heal ability damage (like Rod of Bodily Restoration from Magic Item Compendium page 173)?

2)When i reach Epic, i want to go to 10th level with Legacy Champion to improve as maximum i can Hellfire Warlock, but after that is possible to progress Legacy Champion to 11th level and beyond? I mean, is there any oficial Epic Legacy Champion Progression or will i have to progress Warlock again?

3)Any Feat suggestions?

4)Any Epic Feat suggestion besides Eldritch Sculptor and Lord of All Essences (these 2 epic feats can be found here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/200...)?
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 17, 2012 - 2:18PM #2
draco1119
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Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,932
There's no official Rpic progression for LegChamp, but it IS allowed. Also, look at Bloodlines for even more Hellfire levels... That aren't levels.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 17, 2012 - 2:39PM #3
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Thanks for the advice!

I don't understand clearly these Bloodlines rules, but i'll take a look onto it.

And if Legacy Champion can reach Epic Levels then lol, Hellfire Warlock is gonna have a Hell of a Blast!
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 17, 2012 - 3:15PM #4
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,786
This is pretty standard UT/LC use, applied towards damage. 

1) When I did something like this, I used one level of Binder (Binder 1 / Warlock 6 / UT 1 / LC 1 / Hellfire 3 / LC +5 / UT +2 / Warlock +1) . The skill requirement means it doesn't actually slow you down all that much. Because you've got a bit of extra leeway, grab Beguiling Influence and work as a speaker early on, before you unlock your truly hellish powers. 

(My approach also used Illumian / Vaulkrau (provides a boost on Diplomacy checks and caster level), and splashed an element of Eldritch Glaive with Weapon Finesse in there, but was otherwise a pretty straightforward warlock in terms of feats and invocations. Unlike normal glaivelocks, you don't need a high base attack: if every hit is doing 28d6, and they're all touch attacks, you don't need as many hits to get the expected damage up there.)

2) See Draco's remark. In general I do not plan for epic due to poor support.

3) None directly. I would like to remind you that, should you need larger AoE effects than warlocks can normally provide, just fly (Fell Flight) and aim Eldritch Cone down.

4) See 2.

As for bloodlines, I explain it here. Time it right and you can squeeze +6d6 hellfire in there, as well as playing up the eeeeeeeevil nature of soul binding and hellfire.
Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series: Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows:
[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 18, 2012 - 3:10AM #5
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Thanks for your time and lol what a cheese is these Bloodlines, but i guess i won't work with them because they're so... Weird.

But thanks anyway, i'll see this Draco'a Remark and think about it.

Just a question: You stated that your build was Binder 1/Warlock 6/UT 1/LC 1, but you can get LC only after level 10, does that have to do with your Bloodlines levels (since there are 3 levels of Bloodline which gives you a "theorical" level 10)?
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 18, 2012 - 4:57PM #6
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,786
...that's just me missing a prerequisite again. Not hard to shuffle the levels around to make it work.

And since bloodlines are Unearthed Arcana, skipping them is probably wise.
Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series: Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows:
[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 19, 2012 - 2:16PM #7
death_isthe_begining
Date Joined: Jun 5, 2009
Posts: 2,242
Well as far as epic feats the Shadowmaster feat from the page you linked to is very vesatile.
Et in arcadia ego~Even in paradise I am here
Est Sularus Oth Mithas~My Honor Is My Life
You, sir, are a liar. Or delusional.  I like your style.- Zombie_Babies
Spoiler: Show
The two editions are very different...and make for two different games.

In general, 3.0/3.5 is built around more-or-less full freedom in terms of character customization.
In contrast, 4.0 is built around balance and ease of play.
Honestly, I think WotC should have maintained both lines as parallel games. 

(real life friends came up with this not me)
The Resident Nonexistant Antichrist Neanderthal Amish Werewolf Jesus Delusion.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 19, 2012 - 8:00PM #8
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Yeah, there's others feats there that i liked, but talking about non-epic feats i think maximize spell-like ability and some others of this kind can be useful for my 2 (yes, two) Hellfire Blast each with 2 (yes, two again) Essences per round.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 20, 2012 - 4:56AM #9
death_isthe_begining
Date Joined: Jun 5, 2009
Posts: 2,242
But with Shadowmaster you get all sorts of litlle fun things like Maze, Mordonkainen's Magnificent Mansion, all of the Wall spells, and more. In fact a fun little trap would be a Phase Door straight down, to anything that doesn't fly in means a tough time coming back up (set the trigger to be when someone steps on it). Trap The Soul is another useful spell (particularly if trying to protect something from a thief). There are all the teleport spells(don't forget the repositioning ones in PHB2). There is 1 out of combat self-healing spell in Dragon Magic (Undying Vigor of the DragonLords). You can get area con damage (Cloudkill).


On the subject of non-epic options why not get the Eldritch Glaive least invocation from Dragon Magic instead of Eldritch Sculptor epic feat? And do you have Ability Focus for those essences?
Et in arcadia ego~Even in paradise I am here
Est Sularus Oth Mithas~My Honor Is My Life
You, sir, are a liar. Or delusional.  I like your style.- Zombie_Babies
Spoiler: Show
The two editions are very different...and make for two different games.

In general, 3.0/3.5 is built around more-or-less full freedom in terms of character customization.
In contrast, 4.0 is built around balance and ease of play.
Honestly, I think WotC should have maintained both lines as parallel games. 

(real life friends came up with this not me)
The Resident Nonexistant Antichrist Neanderthal Amish Werewolf Jesus Delusion.
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Cancel
7 months ago  ::  Nov 20, 2012 - 8:26PM #10
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Yes, i'll get the Shadowmaster feat, it is really useful, but about Eldritch Glaive:

I was not thinking about going melee, BUT if go i guess i could use BOTH Eldritch Glaive and Eldritch Sculptor, not just one of them instead of the other.

I mean, with Eldritch Sculptor i get two Blast Shapes at the same time, and with Eldritch Glaive (that is Blast Shape) i turn my Blast into a Full-Attack melee, now just wonder TWO of this Full-Attacks, each one with TWO Essences (Lorde of All Essences) and with Hellfire Blast... Man, THAT'S AWESOME!

I do intend to get Ability Focus too.

Thanks for your advice, this thing looks promissor, i just need to get high Base Attack Bonus now with something like Divine Power or similar.
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