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7 months ago ::
Nov 16, 2012 - 7:53PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2011
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Perhaps I'm mistaken, but over the course of life I've noticed that internet forums are prone to hyperbole. Even when it's a legitimate critique, this hyperbole can make it hard to figure out what needs tweaking, and what is a major red flag. Case in point, I tend to play wizards. So when I find myself thinking "waaah, wizards need moar power," I can step back, notice my bias, and realize after some number crunching that it's fine. Similarly, as a DM, I used to haaaate Monks getting Wis to AC, because in high level games everybody took 1 level of monk to get that bonus. But, when I take a deep breath and think about bounded accuracy, I stop worrying. But when you think about the playtest packet now, what would you ragequit over? What's your hardcore, red flag, rage quit, never-play-5E-again gripes? And what's just grumbling, personal preference, and nitpicks? I don't mean to imply nitpicks don't matter. They do! But on forums, it's hard to tell the diff between red flags and yellow flags. Here, I'll start with mine. RAAAAGEQUIIIIT!!!
- Sneak Attack. Nothing new to say that hasn't been said already. I'd bet this is the top of everyone's list
- Skill Mastery. With no dice-per-round pool outside of combat, 10th level rogues can get 1/3D10 to almost every non-combat skill check.
- 1st level spells that DON'T scale. Signature spells mean that a tactician mage's scaled-to-5th-level encounter Thunderwave is WAAAY better than the illusionist's non-scaling equivalent Color Spray. Either specify that it can't be memorized to higher levels, or make sure other 1st level spells that might get a Tradition built around them do scale.
- Polymorph's broken. Should be tied to hit dice, much like druids back in the day.
- Hold Person. 3rd level wizard spell, 2nd level cleric spell!?!?!? That's gotta be a typo.
- Heavy Armor at High Level. 5E's big goal has been to think about flavor first. In 3E and 4E, epic level characters rarely could be seen wearing plate, and I think something flavorful is lost because of that.
- Use Rope Get rid of it, please. It's entirely covered in a combination of Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Climb (rappelling), Ride (block n' tackle), and Profession (Sailor).
Nitpicks
- Skill Bonus from levels. Is this a new skill you get? +1 to existing skills? Mostly just need more info.
- Ability bonus to spell damage? Do they get this? The language isn't clear. My number-crunching for damage implies no, they don't.
- One stat classes. A really nice touch in 4E was that Wizards were rewarded for other stats; otherwise, it was the core example of dumping everything into 1 of 6 abilities. Some Wizard traditions that bring that back would be nice.
- Give Magic Attack to martial classes. Sure, it's hard to picture them using it. But what about magic items? What if they multiclass? At least throw in an optional rule that says "if it pops up, a Fighter's crappy magic attack is equal to a wizard's crappy physical attack."
- Same with Save DC bonus. Sure, fighters will probably never use it, but they might.
- Rogue HP should use a D8. Fighter's the high end of the spectrum, wizard's the low end. If a class ain't low end, don't put 'em in the low end.
What about you? If you have to separate your gripes into Boycott-level gripes and Nitpick-level gripes, what makes the cut?
***EDIT: Let's be honest. If you're into D&D enough to have an active account on the forums, you won't not buy 5E; you'll buy it and make a 30 page homebrew errata. But just pretend for argument's sake that you're not a lifetime D&D junkie XD
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7 months ago ::
Nov 16, 2012 - 8:00PM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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RAGEQUIT: Advantage/Disadvantage is basically a giant flag saying "we don't care". The math doesn't work out, and promotes counter-intuitive gameplay.
Nitpick: Quadratic progression of expertise dice. Getting more dice and bigger dice creates an incredibly erratic (who rolls 3d10 for damage?) discrepancy between people who can and cannot fight.
The metagame is not the game.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 5:42AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 12, 2012
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I acknowledge that this is far from a finished product, so I have some faith that they will get it right. Right now, the bulk of my issues concern the rogue. The rest can be fixed with minor tweaks(or at least I believe).
Sneak attack- big issue here. Rogue is outclassed by fighter in all but the skills department. I think making sneak attack a class feature instead of a maneuver that does bonus damage equal to max expertise dice without spending them would greatly improve the viability of the rogue
Rogue Maneuvers: Some of them are HIGHLY SITUATIONAL, and don't get as much use as Fighter maneuvers. Some new maneuvers related to faking out an enemy or disabling them in some way may add some appeal
Nitpicks:
Some underwhelming/overwhelming spells:
Polymorph: Overwhelming/need not say anymore
Cone of Cold: Underwhelming/outclassed by lower level damage spells. It needs something...a boost in damage, a speed reduction component for affected foes, or both
Scorching ray: issues/not really liking the automatic damage...just seems odd. Would rather involve dice rolls for damage
magic missile: has the potential of being both. Not sure of the existing mechanic of preparing in a higher slot.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 10:49PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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I'm not going to point at specific mechanics; I'll go a bit higher-level.
- Balancing classes across levels... no. That never worked, and it won't work now. It's why so many people designed campaigns to begin at level 4 and finish by about level 12.
- Balancing classes across pillars... no. I've been in campaigns that were almost all combat, and in campaigns that were almost all social, and in campaigns that were almost all exploration. Every class should be viable as an approximately-equal partner in all three.
- NOT balancing classes... not acceptable.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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7 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2012 - 6:21PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 14, 2003
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I'll second Warrl's "post of infinite wisdom". For the love of gods, make the game balanced!
Are you threatening me master jedi?  Dungeons & Dragons 4e Classic - The Dark Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2012 - 6:59PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2012
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I just completed my first playtest today, and here are my major and minor grievances for the most recent set:
Major Grievance:
HP: For player characters, it's too low now. I played a test campaign with a monk and a cleric, and while they both have rather high initial AC, the way the HP calculations are currently set up, they only have 10 HP each (and that's after tweaking the Constitution score to make sure they've got any kind of a modifier). This created a situation where the cleric ended up in KO'ed, and I had to talk my way out of trouble for the moment. Of course, in the second major combat encounter, this wasn't an option, and both of my characters were KO'ed in short order. This situation could have been assuaged by even as little as 5 extra HP. Taking one hit and having to pray for misses every time from then on out is not what I'd consider fun and could be a discouragement to newer players. A 5-10 HP bump to at least cleric and monk (if not all classes) is needed. Desperately.
Minor Grievances:
Better healing system for short rests: Between encounters, my cleric was stabilized by the monk and had to use his Hit Dice (misnomer, but I'll get to that in a bit) to regain health. Said hit die was not enough to restore him to full, but that's not the real problem; the problem is that he only had one. So, when he desperately needed to do so again later, he was out of luck. Of course, if his HP had been higher to begin with, it would have made this less of an issue, but it's still a problem. The only alternatives given are for making healing harder, not easier. And Cure Minor Wounds was of laughably little help, because...
Cure Minor Wounds is just about useless: 1 HP to a creature that's at 3 or less? Even with the HP system as is, it's nigh unusable. About the only time it would be useful would be to heal a stabilized person, but even then, 1 HP is not enough to really get back into a fight (believe me: I know this firsthand). So if it can't help you when you're just bloodied, and it can only buy you one or two extra turns (even accounting for clerics having it as an at-will), what use is it?
Hit Dice are misnamed: Because they don't have much to do with hitting anything. They determine your health or healing abilities. And yes, I realize they determine how many hits you can take, but that's not their sole function. Given all they do, they should be renamed Health Dice. Same initialism, more accurate name.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2012 - 11:03PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2008
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Unexpected Tarrasque in my pajamas:
*Expertise Dice as the default/core for all martial classes, and now justified with the "that's how you get extra damage and simulate all martial class features ever" notion. Done. Out.
*Classes that can't do all the things at 1st level that they have always done at first level (Monk, Rogue). I save vs Stun.
*Bounded accuracy without bounded damage. I am knocked prone, save ends.
*Scruming for development. D&D deserves a better process. I cast teleport. Or blink. Or target myself with disintegrate.
Recently Wedgied Ancient Red Dragon I stole some hoard from:
*Vancian Casting (It's been 30 years. Classic or not, I want, nay almost need, a significantly better option)
*Wildly inconsistent (and thus hard to keep straight) mechanics (particularly with spells).
*The 3.5 (but worse) skill list (I hate you, "Use Rope". Why can't you be more like your cousin, the absurdly greater body of knowledge "Science"?)
"Uncle Roger Drunk" Hill Giant after closing time:
*Needless complexity of simple powers like Turn Undead
*Reduction in power level of all classes at 1st level to near-Zombie Pomeranean levels...then soars to Dire Marmaduke-ian at the next level increase.
*Seemingly incoherent decisions like building a bounded accuracy system, then immediately breaking it with Skill Mastery.
*Seeming abandonment of so many nice mechanics by the roadside in favor of...much less nice mechanics meant to simulate the same thing. (WHAT?!)
*Domains that have spells that have nothing to do with the domain.
*Random dice values for HP and stats again. It's cute until you have to live with it for 10 levels. Then I want to slip it a rufi and "go out for cigarettes".
Claustrophobic Rust Monster in my outhouse:
*Loss of Channel Divinity as a way of covering a variety of powers such as Turn Undead. No sense at all to leaving this one on the roadside.
*Classes that feel much less like their original edition versions in an edition that is supposed to be aiming at throwback.
*Paths/Specialties/Themes/etc that (a) impart very little potency and (b) are presented as mandatory (but not really) and (c) don't lead you to the outcome promised in the title. Great for quick start guidance, but wasted text for veteran players.
*Backgrounds being the source for all skills. For that matter why is there any restriction on skill choice at all? Unlock please.
*Background Story Factors that are (a) mislabeled as "Traits" (a shop is not a "trait"), (b) useless when not in a town (most likely your home town at that---where adventures generally NEVER are) and (c) impart imbalanced abilities relative to one another
*Feats every third level, exacerbated by the fact that feats do very little for your power level, and are presented as staplegunned to a path.
*"Card" feel to all builds (pick your race card, your class card, your specialty card, your background card, your sub-class card, your gear card(s), your spell cards). Ugh. On par with 4E here.
*Humans. Nuff Said. Gotta be a better way.
*Maximum of a 4 point variance in starting AC values (12 to 16...really?), meaning only about 4 armors are available (despite a good dozen or so concepts it would be nice to see again) and freaking *ring mail* gets classified as "heavy" somehow. Not goin' in there.
*Rituals you would never put in a slot, yet having the option to be put in one.
*Casters can't make magic items (yet). Yes, I know 1E disallowed this until 10th level or so, but not even a scroll? Bu-whaaa?
Hooligan Quicklings took my boots again:
*Metamagic. Guh.
*Generic dieties. At first I thought "yay", then I immediately missed every diety's flavor.
A Portable Hole to hide in from all of the above:
*Advantage and Disadvantage
*Bounded Accuracy as a concept
*Simpler math
*Expedient gameplay
*Story factors as a concept
*Nice ideas for race powers in some cases
*New weapon groupings
*Less "powers" than 4E
*Rituals are still here
*Skills not needing to be attached to attributes
*Magic item origins and flavor effects
*The fact it isn't done yet
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7 months ago ::
Nov 20, 2012 - 8:46AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2012
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***EDIT: Let's be honest. If you're into D&D enough to have an active account on the forums, you won't not buy 5E; you'll buy it and make a 30 page homebrew errata. But just pretend for argument's sake that you're not a lifetime D&D junkie XD
I'm not.  I only started up a little over a couple of months ago myself.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 5:06AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2006
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I was largely happy with the direction of Next until the most recent playtest packet. Most of the problems are minor issues (why was Perception changed back to separate Listen and Spot skills, dead levels in character development, etc.). But the only changes significant enough to make me consider not purchasing the product when it is released are the changes they made to spellcasting in the October 29 packet.
I don't understand at all why they removed minor spells and converted them into 0-level spells; it was much simpler and far more streamlined as a series of at-will powers, and were in no way gamebreaking.
I at least understand why they reduced the number of spells per day for spellcasters. The designers thought the casting classes needed some balance. But instead of powering down the offending spells they gutted their spellcasting capabilities.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 9:47AM
#10
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About the only thing that would upset me that badly would be to see heavy armour get screwed as badly as it had in certain previous editions. As long as light armour-using classes can't approach the AC of a heavily-armoured warrior, then I'll be happy. So far, I'm pleased with what they've set up for D&D Next.
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