|
7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 12:04PM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2009
|
That's about the most useful thing you have said this whole time.
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 4:24PM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
|
If, by design, your DM creates combats intended to last dozens of rounds and 12 hours, then you're right - encounter and daily powers lose almost all relevancy and at-will optimization is king. However, in such a case, the game you're playing is not 4e DnD in either structure or balance, so this board is a really weird place to discuss it.
This. You really are playing a whole different game, so it's going to be hard to really judge the effectiveness of your build. Personally, I think spamming at-wills for 12 hours wouldn't really be all that fun, and it's the kind of grind that 4e was explicitly made to avoid. But if it works for your group, more power to you.
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 5:38PM
#23
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
|
Ok, my Nova then. First of all I am not 27 so Exhilarating Strike woudln't do me much good. This is not a theoretical build at 30, it is just me posting the build I use every week at our game. So here is my nova.
Move Action: Order From Chaos: Every ally in 10 shifts his or her speed and gains combat advantage until EoNT
Minor Action: Spirit's of battle: Zone gives all allies +1 to hit until EoEnc.
Standard: Spirit of the Ram: All allies in burst 2 can charge an enemy with +4 to hit and +5 dmg.
Action Point Standard: Great Watcher Spirit: 2 allies can make a melee basic attack
Immediate: Exhoted Counterattack: My ally is hit with an attack, they get healing surge value HP back and do 2 melee basic attacks, if hit creature is dazed.
So total of 9 attacks and some bonuses to damage and to hit. Not as good as yours, but I also hand out lots of defense bonuses and shifts and combat advantage and whatnots.
A lot of that is daily options, not every encounter repeatable without fail options. Revelatory Slash does a lot of what Exhilarating Strike does at 23rd. And most of the other Switch builds do something similar.
Spirit of the Ram isn't bad, but it is going to be a rare party where everyone wants to charge an opponent and has the capability of doing so successfully - +4 to hit/+5 damage isn't enough to make it worthwhile for the 8 Str character without an MBA who might be inclined to do it anyway.
The basic problem I see with your character(who mind you, isn't a horrible leader by any means) is that it feeds into the basic dysfunction that is happening in your group - you make long combats easier to survive, but you don't really speed them up a lot. So your group ends up with some really long combats as your DM tries to challenge your group.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 8:20PM
#24
|
Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2009
|
We do split it up over about 3 weeks on those huge war style fights. It's about 4 hours a night and we play once a week. We don't get those long battles every time, but a lot of the time it is a 2 session fight when you count all the talking about TV Shows and everything. Also it is tough because no one tries to max their characters. I spend an entire week of evenings trying to pick one feat and 1 item when we level up. They spend about 15 minutes just before the game starts, so they don't really synchronize everything. I try to find a theme then look at all classes and see what is best for that theme and then see if I could fit that into my build. It's not perfect but everyone at the tableis pretty impressed with what he can do. I thought I was until I got dogged for 2 pages.
EDIT: whenI say theme I don't mean a Character Theme. I mean is it a healer that hands out saving throws, or a defender with mega defenses and crushing ignoring penalties etc...
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 10:26PM
#25
|
Date Joined:
May 15, 2007
|
If the other players characters are severely unoptimized then focusing on granting them extra attacks is pretty much the worst thing you can do. However, if this is your team's level of optimization and you are all cool with that; then your build should be fine. Running a char opped DPR monster in a team of unoptimized characters isn't going to optimize anyones enjoyment of the game.
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 18, 2012 - 6:32AM
#26
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
|
I thought I was until I got dogged for 2 pages.
You're describing a situation where ironically, the problems of your party are likely due to your optimization compared to everyone else - you up people's defenses to the point where even if they're not particularly optimized, now they are. Which allows the DM to up the level of the opponents so as to 'challenge' the party.
But because your party isn't actually optimized and you don't generally boost attack bonuses, now they can't consistently hit the opponents either.
So you end up with slogfests that aren't typical 4e.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
Show
Builds
Show
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 18, 2012 - 2:58PM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
|
Honestly what might be helpful is an example battle?
You are playing at level 24, so explain to us what these big style battles are like and maybe we can help you optimize for them.
Does the fight look like this:
1 Solo
2 Elites
4 Standards
10 Minions
Or This:
2 Solos
8 Standards
What levels are we working with? If your DM is going to be throwing radically different combats than "normal 4e combat" (Where most people can use LFR modules as a very rough baseline for normal) then we need to know a bit more about the parameters before we can even try to help.
The only issue I see here is that you seem to be asserting that there is no way to nova through the encounter and go from initiative to cleanup quickly. From the experience of most of the boards that is generally only true if the players or the DM are doing something wrong. I think, if we could look at what the numbers are, we could see if it is actually not possible or rather unlikely that you could nova through them and your DM is just making the encounters too crazy beefy. Or, on the flip side, we might be able to help you get to a better middle ground where you don't have to slog away at things for 12 hours.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 18, 2012 - 5:34PM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2009
|
Well, I would say your 2 solo's and 8 standards is about right with our 6 player group. Usually he has maybe 2 mid-high ranking enemies, 1 super boss and then some standard sized. So total there is usually about a total of 8-10. And sometimes he has an alarm being set-off and by the time we kill the first round the second round is coming in due to us tripping a sensor of some sort.
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 18, 2012 - 5:41PM
#29
|
Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
|
So this would be a typical "huge" encounter:
L26 Solo Artillery
L24 Solo Brute
4 x L24 Soldier
2x L24 Brute
2x L24 Skirmisher
That sound about right?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
|
|
|
|
7 months ago ::
Nov 18, 2012 - 9:51PM
#30
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
|
So total there is usually about a total of 8-10. And sometimes he has an alarm being set-off and by the time we kill the first round the second round is coming in due to us tripping a sensor of some sort.
But... why? When the first round is done, that's the encounter. You short rest, and then fight the second group. That's how 4e was made to work. I'm all for creative encounters, but this is just throwing so many intended mechanics of 4e out the window that it's not the same game anymore. Why even have encounter powers at all if you can use them approximately once every three sessions? Or is this just a case of a DM that thinks he needs to kill his players to Win the Game so he just throws more and more monsters at them?
|
|
|
