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Switch to Forum Live View 38 Years of the Monk: Then and Now (1974-2012)
7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 3:23AM #1
Ramzour
Date Joined: Jun 25, 2011
Posts: 193
I thought it would be interesting to compare the D&D Next Monk with the Monk class throughout its history in D&D. I've seen a lot of false information being shouted around about what the monk is or should be. Well, here's proof of what the monk HAS been, how it has evolved, and what it is now.

Conclusion: Looking at the historical monk, the D&D Next version seems to be a nice mixture of past versions.
  • The D&D Next Monk doesn't really have anything "new", though some class features are expressed in new ways.
  • It's certainly not as restrictive as it was in the early editions (limited treasure, racial and attribute restrictions, ability to use potions, etc).
  • This monk is a stand-alone class, whereas some earlier monks were Cleric specializations with spells!! 
  • The monk doesn't have the thief abilities it originally had
  • The monk doesn't have the druidic speak with XXX abilities it originally had
  • Their damage (d6 bludgeoning) is pretty average compared to past editions.
  • The concept of Monk Ki has been around for 12 years now, but the abilities it provides (stuns, heals, etc) have existed since the monk's first appearance in the 70's.
  • This monk has similar immunities and defenses to things like poisons and mind attacks
  • The monk remains a very mobile class, with access to various maneuvers

Overall, the D&D Next Monk feels very much like the Monk would expect (based on previous incarnations of the class). I am completely aware that this is our first look at the class and I expect nothing but good changes to it from here on out.




Original D&D (1974-1976)
Spoiler: Show

Monk is a Cleric Sub-class
Min Scores: Wis 15, Str 12, Dex 15
Races Allowed: HUMAN ONLY
Alignment: any, but usually lawful
Treasure: same as Paladins
Armor: none
Weapons: any
Add 1/2 level to damage
Chance to stun or kill opponent on every strike
Reduced chance to be surprised
Thief Abilities: Open Locks, Remove Traps, Listen, Climb, Stealth
Slow Fall
Speak with Animals
Speak with Plants
Appear to be dead
Chance to resist mind reading
Heal self
Immune: suggestion, hypnosis
Resistance: mind attacks
Quivering Palm
Resist: Geas, Quest spells
Saving Throws as Cleric
Dodge missile attacks
Evasion
Cannot use Potions or Scrolls


1st Edition AD&D (1977-1988)
Spoiler: Show

Min Scores: Str 15, Wis 15, Dex 15, Con 11
Alignment: Lawful
Hit Dice: d4
Thief Attack bonuses
Add half level to damage
Dex gives no armor class adjustments
No XP bonus
Stunning Attack
Chance for Killing Attack
Multiple Attacks
Save vs Petrification to deflect missiles
Half damage on failed saves
Reduced chance to be surprised
Thief Skills: Find/Remove Traps, Stealth, Listen, Climb
Reduce falling damage
AC increases with level
increased move speed
Speak with Animals
Chance to resist mind reading
Immune: Disease
Immune: Haste, Slow spells
Appear dead
Heal damage to self
Speak with Plants
Resistance to charms
Resistance to mind attacks
Immune: poison
Immune: Geas, Quest spells
Quivering Palm
Magic Items: can only possess 2 magic weapons and 3 other magic items
Reduced wealth
Strength does not improve their to-hit or damage
Restricted hirelings and henchmen


2nd Edition AD&D (1989-1999)
Spoiler: Show

Version 1: Complete Priest's Handbook

Monk is a Cleric with the "Fighting Monk" kit
Min Scores: Dex 12
Bonus NW Proficiency: Tumble
Bonus Weapon Proficiencies: choose from Unarmed Combat styles: Punching; Wrestling; or Martial Arts
Armor: none
Treasure: can't own more thing than he can carry on his back
Unarmed Damage: 1-4 + STR mod

Version 2: Spells & Magic
Subclass of Priest
Min Scores: Wis 15, Int 14, Con 13
Races allow: ONLY HUMAN
"A monk is not a front-rank warrior, but he can be a very capable infiltrator and skirmisher."
Armor: none
AC: improves +1 on every even level
Weapons: as the cleric, plus Unarmed Combat
Unarmed Combat Specialist: Punching; Wrestling; Martial Arts
Extra attacks for punching and martial arts
Improved grabs/holds for Wrestling
Magic Items: Monk CANNOT use items that simulate armor (Bracers of Defense).
Access to a few cleric spell domains
Resistance to mind reading and scrying
Special Ability: Free Action (as the Priest spell)
Followers: none


3rd Edition (2000-2007)
Spoiler: Show

Player's Handbook

Aligment: Lawful
Abilities: Wis, Dex
Hit Dice: d8
Rogue/Cleric BAB
All good saves
Flurry of Blows
Unarmed Strike
Bonus Feats
Speed Increase with level
AC Increase with level
Wis to AC
Evasion
Still Mind (+2 vs Enchantment)
Unarmed attacks treated as "magical"
Slow Fall
Immune: Disease
Wholeness of Body
Impr Evasion
Immune: Poison
Dimension Door
Spell Resistance
Quivering Palm
Immune: Aging
Speak with all living creatures
Etherealness
Immune: Charm
Damage Reduction


4e (2008-2012)
Spoiler: Show

Player's Handbook 3

Power Source: Psionic
Abilities: Dex/Wis/Str or Dex/Str/Wis
Armor: cloth
Unarmed Damage: 1d8 (1d10 with feat)
AC = 10 + 1/2 level + Dex or Int mod + 2 (when wearing no armor or cloth armor)
Lots of movement and forced movement abilities
Very little utility, mostly attack powers
Weapons: "monk weapons". Can use monk weapons while doing unarmed attacks.


D&D Next (2012-  )
Playtest Packet 13 Nov 2012
Alignment: Lawful
Ability Adjustment: +1 Wis or +1 Dex
Hit Dice: d8
Weapon Attack: as Fighter (highest rate)
Weapons: monk weapons
Unarmed Strikes deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage
Unarmed Strikes are considered magical, et al for overcoming resistance
Armor: none
AC: add Wismod to AC
Stunning Strike
Wholeness of Body (self heal)
Skill Training: pick 2 physical skills
Immune: disease
Immune: charm and fear
Monk-Specific Maneuvers: Flurry of Blows (default)
Monk-Specific Maneuvers: Step of the Wind (default)
Monk-Specific Maneuvers: Deflect Missiles
Monk-Specific Maneuvers: Hurricane Strike
Monk-Specific Maneuvers: Iron Root Defense
Other Maneuvers: Controlled Fall (similar to Slow Fall)
Other Maneuvers: Danger Sense (bonus to initiative)
Other Maneuvers: Deadly Strike (extra damage)
Other Maneuvers: Defensive Roll (similar to Evasion)
Other Maneuvers: Iron Will
Other Maneuvers: Lightning Reflexes
Other Maneuvers: Mighty Exertion
Other Maneuvers: Spring Attack
Other Maneuvers: Tumbling Dodge
Other Maneuvers: Vault
Other Maneuvers: Whirlwind Attack
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 5:01AM #2
Uchawi
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2010
Posts: 1,748
You need to throw in AD&D Oriental Adventures martial arts into the list of considerations. Although it was not restricted to a monk, it is a great mechanism to show how different monk schools could be represented is you consider fighting styles doing the same thing for fighters.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 5:03AM #3
bluespruce786
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2012
Posts: 722

Nice work Ram. I've gotten to a point where I trust what the dev's are doing with DDN, they seem to be striking a good balance between all of the editions while still moving the game forward. This newest iteration of the monk as illustrated by your excellent post just supports that feeling.

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 6:06AM #4
kadim
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Posts: 2,766
This is really interesting and reinforces my impression that the reactions to the monk are more centrally reactions to the fighter and their relative mathcraft.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 6:38AM #5
wrecan
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Date Joined: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 17,727
Nice work, Ramzour.  I've taken your information and condensed it into tabular format...




MONK


OD&D


1e


2e v.1


2e v.2


3e


4e


Total


Next


Iron Will


Yes


Yes


No


Yes


Yes


Yes


5


Yes


No Armor


Yes


Yes


Yes


Yes


Yes


Yes


5


Yes


Ability requirements


Yes


Yes


Yes


Yes


No


No


4


No


Deflect/Catch Arrow


Yes


Yes


No


No


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Evasion


Yes


No


No


Yes


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Flurry of Blows


No


Yes


No


Yes


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Limited Weapons


No


No


Yes


Yes


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Natural AC bonus


No


Yes


No


Yes


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Quivering Palm


Yes


Yes


No


No


Yes


Yes


4


No


Self-healing


Yes


Yes


No


No


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Slow fall


Yes


Yes


No


No


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Stunning blow


Yes


Yes


No


No


Yes


Yes


4


Yes


Cleric sub-class


Yes


No


Yes


Yes


No


No


3


No


Flat damage bonus


Yes


Yes


No


No


Yes


No


3


No


Magic item restriction


Yes


Yes


No


Yes


No


No


3


No


Thievery


Yes


Yes


No


No


No


Yes


3


No


Treasure Limits


Yes


Yes


Yes


No


No


No


3


No


Alertness


Yes


Yes


No


No


No


No


2


Yes


Alignment restriction


No


Yes


No


No


Yes


No


2


Yes


Feign death


Yes


Yes


No


No


No


No


2


No


Racial limitation


Yes


No


Yes


No


No


No


2


No


Speak w/Animals, Plants


Yes


Yes


No


No


No


No


2


No


Vancian Casting


No


No


Yes


Yes


No


No


2


No


 
Looks to me that the only crucial element missing is Quivering Palm.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 6:42AM #6
Arithezoo
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Posts: 3,270
Nice work guys!  I already assumed that the designers were doing what they say they are doing (looking over the history of each class), but it is still nice to see it all put forth for us to see.

Wasn't Quivering Palm the attack that could kill the target (or am I thinking of something else)?  What level do you think would be appropriate for it?  Perhaps it would come after level 10.

Also, Wrecan, why do you say that the D&D Next monk uses Vancian casting? 
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 6:44AM #7
Mand12
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 16,931
x/day Ki uses, but that's a stretch.  Vancian casting means slots and preparation, not simply any daily usage.
D&D Next = D&D:  Quantum Edition
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 7:05AM #8
Arithezoo
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Posts: 3,270

Nov 15, 2012 -- 6:44AM, Mand12 wrote:

x/day Ki uses, but that's a stretch.  Vancian casting means slots and preparation, not simply any daily usage.


That is what I figured.  By that standpoint (that daily means vancian), the 4E monk would also be vancian (as would nearly all 4E classes).

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 7:13AM #9
wrecan
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Good point.  I fixed the table.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 7:23AM #10
wrecan
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Nov 15, 2012 -- 6:42AM, Arithezoo wrote:

Wasn't Quivering Palm the attack that could kill the target (or am I thinking of something else)?  What level do you think would be appropriate for it?  Perhaps it would come after level 10.



IIRC, in 1e and 3e, it was a 1/week(!) power that let you kill the target from any distance at any point you wanted (save or die), which I found a bit overpowered.  (Also, in 1e, when monks were simply a hierarchy and you had to beat your superior to advance a level, I never understood why monks simply didn't quivering palm all their students and then, if one challenged him, you just triggered the quivering palm you inflicted on them as students.  Half your rivals died on the spot without you lifting a finger!) In 4e it was an attack that simply did ongoing 10 damage, which I found a bit anticlimactic.  

I would imagine that would be a 10th level monk 1/day ki power.  I don't know if it would be a strict save-or-die.  I like the idea that it can be planted and used later.  I'd say you can only have one quivering palm active at a time, the person knows he's been affected by the palm, and you can't invoke it for 12 hours after the person has been struck (the quivering takes some time to worm its way down to the victim's heart).  The effect can be removed with Remove Curse.  In the interim, the monk knows if the person dies of other causes, if the effect was removed, or, if he invokes the power, whether the victim made his save or not.

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