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Nov 21, 2012 -- 7:58AM, ChrisCarlson wrote:

Because of bounded accuracy, increasing damage consistently, is the new BAB. Characters need access to upgraded damage as they progress to keep up with increasing monster HPs.

Sneak Attack - is - Deadly Strike (just with a few minor flavor limits that are easily overcome) because both classes need to be able to do more damage as their level increases. Just as the monk does with Flurry of Blows.

The rogue will occasionally find himself in the rare instance where he is unable to trigger his bonus damage. In those instances, he either does something else cool with his XD dice that round, or he sucks it up with the knowledge that there were times when he was awesome doing something else while the fighter sat by and watched in awe.

But at the end of the day, the vast majority of the time, the rogue is competing closely behind the fighter when it comes to damage (as I feel it should be). In the skill department, I don't see it the other way around.

To address your points one at a time:

Damage increase in D&D Next may be handled exclusively through loot drops. We also have minimal access to the late-game of D&D, notably character classes after level 10 and various damage modifiers such as weapon material. In any case, I believe everyone acknowledges that rogues need access to better damage.

So everyone agrees Deadly Strike should be nerfed. Great! A rogue using 3d10 + 1d8 (highest dmg roll avail rogues) weapon damage could max out at 38 damage and average 21-24 per sneak attack. A fighter of equivalent level with their highest damage roll for deadly strike would get 1d10 + 1d12, maxing out at 22 and averaging 9-12. This would certainly make the rogue more respectable; they would have an additional 16 damage per ten turns to offset their damage die.

Sneak attack and deadly strike can be used once every round, which equals ten turns. At least, how I've been playing it does.

I don't think the rogue needs an extra bag of tricks in combat. As we are all keen to point out, the rogue's skill point gain allows them to do out-of-combat tricks that other classes are either worse at or incapable of. Bringing deadly strike's damage down and adding more qualifiers to sneak attack should fix the rogue's combat capabilities.

So you think that having a rogue who can't deal as much damage in combat should have no edge in non-combat situations versus characters that can equip plate armor, can carry adamantine greatswords, and otherwise nuke monsters? Umm, no.

As for backstab being a permanent rogue feature: it kind of flies in the face of the schemes WotC has set up. An acrobat wouldn't know how to shiv someone in the kidneys. Nor would a trickster. CC has suggested giving rogues an equal amount of maneuvers as the fighter. Maybe pacing a rogue's maneuvers at the same rate as the fighter, but forcing backstab on rogues at level 6 so players still only choose four maneuvers?