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Which means your build has nothing over a standard incantatrix.

Yes it has, because it does not need 10 levels of Incantatrix for being God at buffing & persisting, it only needs Metamagic Effect.

It's a good thing the build I brought up can use it, too. 'Cuz, yanno, it's an Incantatrix class feature, and all?

You just need Metamagic Effect.

All of the swiftblade abilities are redundant. All are easily replicatable with buffs.

Good PrCs bring new abilities or enhance existing abilities. Swiftblade gives a lot of abilities the wizard already had, at the cost of a bunch of garbage feats, 10 levels, and 4 CL.

Replicatable abilities are one thing, cumulative abilities are another. All the abilities Wizard already has aren't replacing Swiftblade abilities, they stack, what means, they enhance existing abilities exactly like you said.

Which matters how, exactly? The three levels of Incantatrix will do all the work. These class features are trash.

Exactly, the three levels of Incantatrix will do all the buffing & persisting work, what means other Incantatrix abilities are replicatable with Metamagic Effect, what means you don't need more levels of Incantatrix.

Swiftblade in another way doesn't have replicatable abilities, but cumulative. All the spells that do the same as Swiftblade can stack with Swiftblade abilities, with Blink and Wannabe + Evasive Celerity being the only exception.

Talking about Incantatrix, its Metamagic Effect does the same job as Instant Metamagic and such, but much better, so who is spending class levels with redundancy is you.

And no, i don't think 10 levels of Incantatrix are garbage, i'm just trying to use your twisted logic.

There is so much wrong with this the only reasonable response is 
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Nice champz, you're running out of arguments.

Which is something Wizards already had. If you want more, don't waste time with Wyrm Wizard, just play a damn Mystic Theruge.

The point is that Wyrm Wizard can get ANY spell. For instance:

Wizard/Archvist/Mystic Theurge can get any divine spell and almost all arcane spells, but it can't achieve spells like Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge, Greater Arcane Fusion, and others exclusive spells from Sorcerer and other arcane classes.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 10:14AM, aelryinth wrote:

Notice how he's ignoring that his Rope Trick trick is utterly trashed, and he missed it. At the levels you use Rope Trick, sticking a big bonfire underneath it to fill it with smoke and heat should work fine, or the people suffocate within. SPell limitations, ya know.

Oh, you're adorable.

First off, there's the issue of locating the Rope Trick. Second of all, you're assuming that a level 8+ wizard has no protections against this. So, what level is it that this wizard will be fighting enemies with rapid, highly powerful divinations that can cross planes?

oh, and sorry, the feat is Called Dimensional Spell here? THe one that lets you strike at extradimensional, ethereal, and incorporeal targets without them manifesting on the prime? Thus, you can bombard people in extradimensional spaces without them being able to do anything back to you.

Oh, you mean Transdimensional Spell? You mean the one that is total crap and nobody ever takes unless they decide they specifically need when running around in a Metamagic Storm?

Tinfoil hats work right up until someone spends 1k gp and throws a packet of dust of dispelling against your chest, whereupon you are immediately trapped inside your own bloody protective hat with your personal A-M shell, at which time they carve through it and waste you. Or maybe thy just walk up to you and trigger it while standing in your face, and your hat comes down and you're trapped inside an A-M shell with a swiftblade gish, still hasted.

Seriously, dumb tactic.

First off, source? Second off, acting like a wizard would actually get hit by something? With AC high enough, and over a 95% miss chance? Okay

Contingent spells activate AFTER something has happened, not before.

Incorrect. They can be set up like readied actions.

They are not-preemptive, and have no capacity to make detect events that have not happened, make rational decisions, anticipate, or make judgement calls. Eesh. Classic spellcaster error, allowing Contingent spells to do more then they are capable of.

Wrong. You just obviously have no idea how to word things.

Craft Contingent Spell is not a Contingency spell. It's a magic item rendered as one shot spellcasting, and follows all the rules thereby. Trying to present it as a spell, not a Crafting feat, is quite precious of you. You're effectively saying, the instant you quote this feat, that "I have whatever magic item I choose to have at whatever time I choose to hate it."

i.e. Schroedinger's Artificer, by way of Craft Contingent. Precious, precious of you. Totally wrong, but precious.

Wrong. Wizards have no feat at level 12, just as Druids don't have one at 6. They instead get Craft Contingent Spell. 

And how adorable! You're acting like crafting actually COSTS anything.

Pro tip: Crafting has a flat cost of 20,000 GP and 500 XP. As much crafting as you could possibly want costs exactly that much.

And trying to ignore the fact that if Celerity wins all fights, anyone with more then a 3 Int will have a celerity effect at hand, is wonderfully obfuscatory of you. Do continue with the closemindedness, and keep that hand on your face. Maybe you can see better with it that way.  

==Aelryinth           

There is so wrong here, I don't know where to start.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 9:01PM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Since VD obviously doesn't understand how the build works, and probably not even how the GAME works, as well as his apparent thought that only Swiftblades get Metamagic Effect, I think I'm done with him.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 10:14AM, aelryinth wrote:

Notice how he's ignoring that his Rope Trick trick is utterly trashed, and he missed it. At the levels you use Rope Trick, sticking a big bonfire underneath it to fill it with smoke and heat should work fine, or the people suffocate within. SPell limitations, ya know.

Oh, you're adorable.

First off, there's the issue of locating the Rope Trick. Second of all, you're assuming that a level 8+ wizard has no protections against this. So, what level is it that this wizard will be fighting enemies with rapid, highly powerful divinations that can cross planes?

oh, and sorry, the feat is Called Dimensional Spell here? THe one that lets you strike at extradimensional, ethereal, and incorporeal targets without them manifesting on the prime? Thus, you can bombard people in extradimensional spaces without them being able to do anything back to you.

Oh, you mean Transdimensional Spell? You mean the one that is total crap and nobody ever takes unless they decide they specifically need when running around in a Metamagic Storm?

Tinfoil hats work right up until someone spends 1k gp and throws a packet of dust of dispelling against your chest, whereupon you are immediately trapped inside your own bloody protective hat with your personal A-M shell, at which time they carve through it and waste you. Or maybe thy just walk up to you and trigger it while standing in your face, and your hat comes down and you're trapped inside an A-M shell with a swiftblade gish, still hasted.

Seriously, dumb tactic.

First off, source? Second off, acting like a wizard would actually get hit by something? With AC high enough, and over a 95% miss chance? Okay

Contingent spells activate AFTER something has happened, not before.

Incorrect. They can be set up like readied actions.

They are not-preemptive, and have no capacity to make detect events that have not happened, make rational decisions, anticipate, or make judgement calls. Eesh. Classic spellcaster error, allowing Contingent spells to do more then they are capable of.

Wrong. You just obviously have no idea how to word things.

Craft Contingent Spell is not a Contingency spell. It's a magic item rendered as one shot spellcasting, and follows all the rules thereby. Trying to present it as a spell, not a Crafting feat, is quite precious of you. You're effectively saying, the instant you quote this feat, that "I have whatever magic item I choose to have at whatever time I choose to hate it."

i.e. Schroedinger's Artificer, by way of Craft Contingent. Precious, precious of you. Totally wrong, but precious.

Wrong. Wizards have no feat at level 12, just as Druids don't have one at 6. They instead get Craft Contingent Spell. 

And how adorable! You're acting like crafting actually COSTS anything.

Pro tip: Crafting has a flat cost of 20,000 GP and 500 XP. As much crafting as you could possibly want costs exactly that much.

And trying to ignore the fact that if Celerity wins all fights, anyone with more then a 3 Int will have a celerity effect at hand, is wonderfully obfuscatory of you. Do continue with the closemindedness, and keep that hand on your face. Maybe you can see better with it that way.  

==Aelryinth           

There is so wrong here, I don't know where to start.

Oh, you're precious.

You're saying that all wizards use Rope Trick, and yet obvously nobody knows anything about Rope Trick. Why all the footprints come to this one point and vanish. Why Detect Magic shows a swirl in the air. Why a DC 20 Spot check can tell there's something up there.

And even more precious, assuming all wizards at level 8 have Resist Energy/Fire AND protection against suffocation in place.

Precious, indeed!    

As for Transdimensional SPell: You mean that feat that becomes EXTREMELY USEFUL when every wizard and their mother is holed up in extradimensional spaces and thinks they are the perfect defense? And which can be made into a lesser Metamagic Rod for a low, low cost to bedevil idiotic wizards with?

That feat? Oh, let's just poo-poo the cheap and easy way to defeat my blatant Rope Trick effect that everyone uses but nobody knows about. Oh, how darling.   

Oh, and the wizard never gets hit. All those things that have True Seeing, blindsense, tremorsense, spot checks through the roof, and all the enemy NPC's that can have whatever the DM wants, striking at a guy whose Touch AC isn't going to mean much once his miss chances are totally foiled, and whose AC is then absolutely in the toilet once he's in an A-M shell. Because we all know that every wizard uses magic to buff his AC and do miss chances, but nobody knows that's what the wizard does, so he must be invulnerable.

That precious wizard. Yes. As if people won't find ways to overcome the wizard's defenses, generally with far less effort then he spent putting them up.

And then with Contingent Spell! Which, unfortunately is not a magic item, and so Wish cannot duplicate it.  And Contingent SPells respond to things, you precious boy, they don't anticipate them. they have no capability to anticipate, you have to word them to respond to what happens, not what is going to happen...it's right there in the spell description. I would love to see some of your darling wording of all these Contingent spells you have infinite amounts of, just so you could watch them get flushed down the toilet.  I would also love to see how you replace them so very, very quickly after they get expended...no, wait, I'm sure you use the 5 minute adventuring day and leave the world to burn if your precious contingencies go off and leave you bereft. Yes, that sounds like the smart Schroedinger's wizard play.

And then you bring up the whole idea that Wish can take the place of all Item Creation feats, and then look down on people creating Celerity items wholesale to deal with the Celerity "I Win" button. It appears that only precious people like you are allowed to abuse the rules wholesale with rules-bending, while making simple wondrous items with Celerity are not allowed because they'd disrupt your wonderful worldview.

What a precious chi-er, wizard you are. The rest of the world is totally stupid and could NEVER figure out how to overcome the defenses that obviously every single spellcaster in the world must use, because they are the One True Way.

==Aelryinth             

Nov 23, 2012 -- 5:28PM, draco1119 wrote:

Ael...

Nov 23, 2012 -- 4:56PM, aelryinth wrote:

Oh, you're precious.

You're saying that all wizards use Rope Trick, and yet obvously nobody knows anything about Rope Trick. Why all the footprints come to this one point and vanish. Why Detect Magic shows a swirl in the air. Why a DC 20 Spot check can tell there's something up there.

Footprints?  Every wizard and their entire party has been flying all say for several levels by the time Rope Trick is viable to sleep in.

Oh, and the Spot check doesn't work. Sorry, DC20 is only for invisible creatures, and, last I checked, the Rope Trick is not a creature.

And even more precious, assuming all wizards at level 8 have Resist Energy/Fire AND protection against suffocation in place.

Uh, yeah. Basic protections.

Precious, indeed!    

As for Transdimensional SPell: You mean that feat that becomes EXTREMELY USEFUL when every wizard and their mother is holed up in extradimensional spaces and thinks they are the perfect defense? And which can be made into a lesser Metamagic Rod for a low, low cost to bedevil idiotic wizards with?

Oh, yes. You put it in a Metamagic Rod and laugh maniacally as you shoot a low-level jank spell off that's probably beaten by the wizard's defenses. Not to mention the possibility of dummy Rope Tricks. 

Extra dimensional sleeping isn't for protection, it's for not being detected. And I'm having trouble seeing a nice, precise divination that will let you track the wizard before said wizard gains protections to beat them.

And, of course, all of this falls apart once this Wizard has a cleric buddy or reaches level 13(Or is a SCM), and gets himself Plane Shift, and so just nests Rope Tricks and seals the first one behind him.

That feat? Oh, let's just poo-poo the cheap and easy way to defeat my blatant Rope Trick effect that everyone uses but nobody knows about. Oh, how darling.  

Yeah, that crappy feat.

Oh, and the wizard never gets hit. All those things that have True Seeing, blindsense, tremorsense, spot checks through the roof, and all the enemy NPC's that can have whatever the DM wants, striking at a guy whose Touch AC isn't going to mean much once his miss chances are totally foiled, and whose AC is then absolutely in the toilet once he's in an A-M shell. Because we all know that every wizard uses magic to buff his AC and do miss chances, but nobody knows that's what the wizard does, so he must be invulnerable.

Okay, True Seeing only helps against some of the miss chances. Not against the smoking spiked gauntlet that every wizard carries around. Blindsense and Tremorsense don't help against most of the protections, anyways. So, you bring in a heavily-buffed creature with a bunch of exotic senses, and you'll still be running into a 80+% miss chance. And that's not counting the stacked Mithril Chahar Aina, Dastana, and Twilight Chain Shirt that most wizards wear.

And your AMF won't help against the tinfoil hat.

So, you have no way of penetrating the wizard's defenses, or catching him unprepared.

That precious wizard. Yes. As if people won't find ways to overcome the wizard's defenses, generally with far less effort then he spent putting them up.

All these ways which you have yet to show work. Okay.

And then with Contingent Spell! Which, unfortunately is not a magic item, and so Wish cannot duplicate it.  And Contingent SPells respond to things, you precious boy, they don't anticipate them. they have no capability to anticipate, you have to word them to respond to what happens, not what is going to happen...it's right there in the spell description. I would love to see some of your darling wording of all these Contingent spells you have infinite amounts of, just so you could watch them get flushed down the toilet.  I would also love to see how you replace them so very, very quickly after they get expended...no, wait, I'm sure you use the 5 minute adventuring day and leave the world to burn if your precious contingencies go off and leave you bereft. Yes, that sounds like the smart Schroedinger's wizard play.

Oh, you're adorable. You obviously have no idea how the game works. Or how to work contingencies. Or play a Wizard.

See, here's a funny thing: If you're smart, contingencies will only work when you need them, basically if you're caught with your pants down or fighting something actually threatening, basically another wizard. Contingencies do not go off as part of your average adventuring day. Or, they wouldn't if you weren't a drooling idiot.

And then you bring up the whole idea that Wish can take the place of all Item Creation feats, and then look down on people creating Celerity items wholesale to deal with the Celerity "I Win" button. It appears that only precious people like you are allowed to abuse the rules wholesale with rules-bending, while making simple wondrous items with Celerity are not allowed because they'd disrupt your wonderful worldview.

Where did I mention Wish?

What a precious chi-er, wizard you are. The rest of the world is totally stupid and could NEVER figure out how to overcome the defenses that obviously every single spellcaster in the world must use, because they are the One True Way.

==Aelryinth             

Actually, they can't without some pretty extreme measures. That's why every wizard uses them. Your arguments all rely on someone else figuring it out. None of your solutions work. The only way to actually beat a wizard is through another, more prepared wizard.

Or, in other words, what EDG said.