True... You're more like one of those shrill harpies on MSNBC.
Besides, all of this is OVER in the context of this thread, because the OP has added some info; no extra-action cheese is one of them, so no swift blade or incantatrix.
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True... You're more like one of those shrill harpies on MSNBC.
I'm going to take that as a compliment, given the alternatives.
Besides, all of this is OVER in the context of this thread, because the OP has added some info; no extra-action cheese is one of them, so no swift blade or incantatrix.
You mean no Swiftblade. Incantatrix is still fine.
I'm still curious how the game will funtion withotu free actions. That eliminates Quick Draw, talking, and I see no problematic free actions that don't involve chickens.
I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.
Wizards shut down entire battles with one spell. They shouldn't, and don't need the extra action.
And what spell is that?
If you tell me that Wizard is one of the (or even THE) best classes of the game i'll agree with you, but even then there's situations you can't just win with one spell, so you don't know what you're talking about.
Let's say you try an Area Save or Die, but one of the enemies is immune to death effects, or you try some damage, but some enemy is immune to the kind of damage you used, or you try negative levels and someone is immune to that, or you try ability damage/drain, or mind-effect, or stun, or... Let's even say that you try Shapechange yourself into a killing machine and those constructs of the other topic disjoint you lol, and so on, it's impossible to cover ALL situations in just ONE spell, that's why having more actions/spells per round is better in some situations.
Other situation when Swiftblade can be better is when you just woke up, you just prepared your spells, but didn't buffed/persisted yourself yet, and your camp/whatever is getting attacked, then the Swifty is going to win the Initiative and take the better course of actions, and the Incantatrix isn't.
If your DM always let you set up your persisted buffs without an ambush he's just too good lol
And there's the flavor-fluffy thing too, sometimes peoples like to play with something and they try to optimize THAT something, not other something just because it's supposedly better.
A single mid-level Evocation says that no buffs can be dispelled. Try again.
And i won't quote the rest because you don't even try to argue, you just says yours is better.
But the point is:
Incantatrix is better at many niches, and Swifty is better at many others niches, and maybe (probably) Incantatrix is better at many more niches, but if that means to you that all resume to Swifty is garbage compared with Incantatrix, then why don't you just take PunPun?
Everything is garbage compared to it, even your "almighty unbeatable Incantatrix". If you just want to say yours is better do it, take PunPun.
CJ, you've obviously never heard of the Commoner Rail Gun.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Buttler of the House of Trolls
Wizards shut down entire battles with one spell. They shouldn't, and don't need the extra action.
And what spell is that?
That's the point of Wizards! A lot of them! Solid Fog, Force Cage, Stoneshape, and so much more I'm not going to bother going further.
If you tell me that Wizard is one of the (or even THE) best classes of the game i'll agree with you, but even then there's situations you can't just win with one spell, so you don't know what you're talking about.
And THAT's why Boccob gave us Time Stop.
Let's say you try an Area Save or Die, but one of the enemies is immune to death effects,
How about not. Y'see, Wizards are Intelligence-based. They do NOT fail Knowledge checks.
or you try some damage, but some enemy is immune to the kind of damage you used,
Or how about not because you'll know this, and direct damage builds are weak, outside of a few exception.
or you try negative levels and someone is immune to that, or you try ability damage/drain, or mind-effect, or stun, or...
Knowledge is a class skll. So, no. Let's not "say" anything absurd.
Let's even say that you try Shapechange yourself into a killing machine and those constructs of the other topic disjoint you lol, and so on,
Be prepared. Not difficult.
it's impossible to cover ALL situations in just ONE spell, that's why having more actions/spells per round is better in some situations.
It basically is. And Celerity and Timestop mean that one extra Swiftblade action is unimpressive.
Other situation when Swiftblade can be better is when you just woke up, you just prepared your spells, but didn't buffed/persisted yourself yet,
You obviously have never played any Persistomancer.
then the Swifty is going to win the Initiative and take the better course of actions, and the Incantatrix isn't.
In one impossible-to-occur event, a Swiftblade has a tiny, tiny chance of out-performing an Incantatrix. Except, a wizard can buff in one round.
If your DM always let you set up your persisted buffs without an ambush he's just too good lol
If you LET the DM do that you deserve to be caught unprepared.
And there's the flavor-fluffy thing too, sometimes peoples like to play with something and they try to optimize THAT something, not other something just because it's supposedly better.
And a Wizard is a paranoid, crazy super-genius. Massive buff routines, contingencies, and preparations are not out of character.
A single mid-level Evocation says that no buffs can be dispelled. Try again.
And i won't quote the rest because you don't even try to argue, you just says yours is better.
No. I've provided evidence. All you've done is plug your ears and yell "LALALA I can't hear you!"
Swiftblade is trash. Your "evidence" is absed on absurd events that should never, ever occur if you even think for five seconds.
But the point is:
Incantatrix is better at many niches, and Swifty is better at many others niches, and maybe (probably) Incantatrix is better at many more niches, but if that means to you that all resume to Swifty is garbage compared with Incantatrix, then why don't you just take PunPun?
No. Nice try, though. The Swiftblade has no "niche," any more than a monk has a "niche" of trap-finder and idiot who carries stuff the wizard is too lazy to carry himself. It does nothing of worth by itelf and gives up far too many CL to get them, and you could, yanno, use those levels on something more useful.
Everything is garbage compared to it, even your "almighty unbeatable Incantatrix". If you just want to say yours is better do it, take PunPun.
Ah, the old "play punpun" argumentment against optimization. I thought that one went away years ago.
Seriously, if that's all you have left, just concede and save yourself the embarassment.
No, don't dispel my tinfoil hat! How else am I going to role play lokiare?!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Buttler of the House of Trolls
That's the point of Wizards! A lot of them! Solid Fog, Force Cage, Stoneshape, and so much more I'm not going to bother going further.
It was what i told, that there's no way of covering ALL situations with ONE spell, there's a spell for each one situation, even the most embracing spell still doesn't cover all situations, and then more actions are welcome to cast more spells that can cover each others weaknesses.
And THAT's why Boccob gave us Time Stop.
Swifty can cast a better Time Stop and before other one one does, unless you have a Persisted spell that makes you go first or if you have a Persisted Time Stop itself lol, but it requires preparation which you won't have always, so there is the situations where each one is better.
In one impossible-to-occur event, a Swiftblade has a tiny, tiny chance of out-performing an Incantatrix. Except, a wizard can buff in one round.
A small shiny light of hope just brightened. Sou you admit there's situations where Swiftblade (not just Swiftblade, but any good class/PrC) can out-perform Incantatrix depending on the niches of the classes being compared and depending on the situations they're going through.
If you LET the DM do that you deserve to be caught unprepared.
Well, he is the DM lol
And a Wizard is a paranoid, crazy super-genius. Massive buff routines, contingencies, and preparations are not out of character.
I never said that all of it is out of character, i just said that sometimes even that is not enough because everything is circumstantial and situational.
That's the point of Wizards! A lot of them! Solid Fog, Force Cage, Stoneshape, and so much more I'm not going to bother going further.
It was what i told, that there's no way of covering ALL situations with ONE spell, there's a spell for each one situation, even the most embracing spell still doesn't cover all situations, and then more actions are welcome to cast more spells that can cover each others weaknesses.
What is this, I don't even...
And THAT's why Boccob gave us Time Stop.
Swifty can cast a better Time Stop and before other one one does, unless you have a Persisted spell that makes you go first or if you have a Persisted Time Stop itself lol, but it requires preparation which you won't have always, so there is the situations where each one is better.
I've been over this before. The Swiftblade will not go first, and the "superior"( ) timestop is not worth wasting ten or so levels.
In one impossible-to-occur event, a Swiftblade has a tiny, tiny chance of out-performing an Incantatrix. Except, a wizard can buff in one round.
A small shiny light of hope just brightened. Sou you admit there's situations where Swiftblade (not just Swiftblade, but any good class/PrC) can out-perform Incantatrix depending on the niches of the classes being compared and depending on the situations they're going through.
No. A Swiftblade cannot out-perform an Incantatrix. The Swiftblade is simply an inferior class.
If you LET the DM do that you deserve to be caught unprepared.
Okay, you've proven that the garbage class you have an unhealthy fetish for can outperform an actually good class if the DM is pulling out "rule 0" bull. Congrats. Now it's up to me to point out that by that reasoning, a level 1 commoner is superior, because it could be played by the DM's SO.
And a Wizard is a paranoid, crazy super-genius. Massive buff routines, contingencies, and preparations are not out of character.
I never said that all of it is out of character, i just said that sometimes even that is not enough because everything is circumstantial and situational.
No. An Incantatrix should NEVER be caught unprepared. Uncanny Forethought says as much.
So, yes, I will concede that a swiftblade can outperform an Incantatrix, under the conditions that the DM is a spiteful bastard out to get the Incantatrix, and the Swiftblade is being played by said DM's significant other. What an amazing class, eh? Right up there with Samurai and Commoner.
I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.
) timestop is not worth wasting ten or so levels.
