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The area of Shrink Item increases in 2 ft cubed increments. You don't get to deviate from that. You don't get to shape it to whatever you want. You get increments of 2ft cubed. The area of the spell is not infinitely customizable to your item. saying you can do that is akin to saying you can transmute Rock to mud in a 1' plane hundreds of feet wide and long, and take out a mountainside.
Sorry, no, darling. THe spell even quotes a SIZE LIMIT, not a mass limit. It's looking at area, and you have to abide by the area rules.
And look, your wizard is falling back on Celerity, which if he plays EVERYONE is going to use since it's the I WIN button, and somehow he has an unworded contingency that does the job. Perfect Schroedinger's wizard again!
And he poo-poos how easily his superb defenses can be overcome with fewer spells (A couple summoned/called monsters) then he uses to put them up in the first place. Double standards, much?
His nightmare defense made no sense whatsoever.
He poos the fact you're talking about infinite gold, infinite buffs, and infinite feats. Classic Schroedinger Wizard again.
And suddenly all wizards have Uncanny Forethought as a class ability. Wow, when did that happen?
And you can't break WBL unless the DM lets you break it. That's all there is to THAT.
So, yeah, really not seeing his arguments here. Just the words of someone who is uttering stuff that just isn't true.
==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade
The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
The area of Shrink Item increases in 2 ft cubed increments. You don't get to deviate from that. You don't get to shape it to whatever you want. You get increments of 2ft cubed. The area of the spell is not infinitely customizable to your item. saying you can do that is akin to saying you can transmute Rock to mud in a 1' plane hundreds of feet wide and long, and take out a mountainside.
Uh, yeah, [citation needed]
It's 2 cubic feet/level. This doesn't mean it must be done in cubes of 2 cubic feet. There is nothing at all saying I cannot make it thinner and longer.
Sorry, no, darling. THe spell even quotes a SIZE LIMIT, not a mass limit. It's looking at area, and you have to abide by the area rules.
You really don't get this whole "volume" concept, do you?
And look, your wizard is falling back on Celerity, which if he plays EVERYONE is going to use since it's the I WIN button, and somehow he has an unworded contingency that does the job. Perfect Schroedinger's wizard again!
You really just don't understand the game at all. You're making a fool of yourself, trottting out "evidence" that is just plain wrong, and are incredibly annoying. I think we're done.
And he poo-poos how easily his superb defenses can be overcome with fewer spells (A couple summoned/called monsters) then he uses to put them up in the first place. Double standards, much?
Uh, no. Try again.
His nightmare defense made no sense whatsoever.
No, your apparent lack of understanding of what a Su ability means makes no sense whatsoever.
He poos the fact you're talking about infinite gold, infinite buffs, and infinite feats. Classic Schroedinger Wizard again.
First off, I wasn't trotting them out, you were trying to put those words in my mouth. Second off, arbitrary, not infinite. Third, arbitrary feats, gold, and buffs is pathetically easy. Not my fault you don't understand the basics.
And suddenly all wizards have Uncanny Forethought as a class ability. Wow, when did that happen?
Same time all Druids got Natural Spell.
And you can't break WBL unless the DM lets you break it. That's all there is to THAT.
Wrong. Totally, completely, flat out wrong.
So, yeah, really not seeing his arguments here. Just the words of someone who is uttering stuff that just isn't true.
You know, what's really depressing is that "no u" is not only accurate, it's probably the best response possible. Better than dignifying this absurdity with a serious response.
I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.
Yeah, like you can tailor the volume and size characteristics of ANY OTHER SPELL OUT THERE at will. Oh, but suddenly you can do it with Shrink Item, because you're a Schroedinger's Wizard and you want to.
And you're still falling back on Celerity as a defense. Laughable.
And your nightmare defense still doesn't make sense to the original argument, regardless of your dismissals, which means you're hand-waving supremacy again, little Schroedinger.
And yes, arbirtrary feats, golds and stuff is all pitifully easy if you don't have to keep track of those things. Unlike, you know, the game requires.
Oh, right. Odd. Don't see Uncanny Forethought on most wizard builds out there. Even the optimizer builds here. Strange, that. And unlike Natural Spell, it's not core, either. It's not even a comparison on allowability and play frequency.
BWAHAHAHAHA. You can break WBL if the DM DOES NOT ALLOW IT? BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
It's really, really depressing that you don't know what you're talking about, and yet you post like nobody else does, and only you do. Total BG forum attitude, Schroedinger wizard and all.
==Aelryinth
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade
The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
Yeah, like you can tailor the volume and size characteristics of ANY OTHER SPELL OUT THERE at will. Oh, but suddenly you can do it with Shrink Item, because you're a Schroedinger's Wizard and you want to.
No. Are you honestly this dense?
2 cubic feet does not mean a you're stuck with a cube. It ain't complicated.
And you're still falling back on Celerity as a defense. Laughable.
Not at all.
And your nightmare defense still doesn't make sense to the original argument, regardless of your dismissals, which means you're hand-waving supremacy again, little Schroedinger.
Dismissal does nothing.
And yes, arbirtrary feats, golds and stuff is all pitifully easy if you don't have to keep track of those things. Unlike, you know, the game requires.
No, it's pitifully easy if you know how the game works. Not my fault you've never opened a single book.
Oh, right. Odd. Don't see Uncanny Forethought on most wizard builds out there. Even the optimizer builds here. Strange, that.
So? You don't see Mindbender on almost all the builds here, despite that being superior in most cases. Your point?
And unlike Natural Spell, it's not core, either. It's not even a comparison on allowability and play frequency.
And this is relevent, how?
BWAHAHAHAHA. You can break WBL if the DM DOES NOT ALLOW IT? BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
*FACEPALM*
"The DM can stop it" is not an excuse. It's pathetic.
It's really, really depressing that you don't know what you're talking about, and yet you post like nobody else does, and only you do. Total BG forum attitude, Schroedinger wizard and all.
Funny. Thing is, I do know what I'm talking about. 'Cuz, yanno, I know the rules. Apparently unlike you.
I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.
Yeah I know ECL 24 is crazy. But I am very excited and got pigeonholed a lot by the choices. I am making a wizard type guy, can some one help me with it? I know it will be focused specialist, with some levels of archmage. But what else to throw in? Also, DM is very experienced and strict on "broken things", so I am making a powerful but not broken char.
Thanks a lot!
Chaoz
If you say that your DM is against breaking the action economy how about playing a mind rapist? a build Like Enchanter Wizard 3/ Spell Thief 1/ Master Specialist 10/ Mind Bender 10 wouldn't be horribly bad and fall in line with what I take your DM's opinion of acceptable optimization to be. Throw in master spell thief and you can steal any spells from forbidden school from other spell casters, mind sight will allow you to tell if a creature has an intelligence score or not (letting you know if they can be enchanted at all), and practice spell caster will eat up most of the lost levels in terms of your CL. Master specialist and mind bender also give boosts to the caster level of enchantment spells, so you would start out with a base caster level of 23 (assuming you take practiced spell caster) but your enchantment spells will actually have a caster level of 29.
I believe you mentioned that your DM has limited you to a set number of "controlled" characters (I'd quote the post, but I don't really feel like trudging through the quagmire of debate right now), so a good question would be does he consider dominated or charmed monsters to fall under that ruling? If yes, then I would opt for something else, if no, then prepare to be the face of the party as most people who see you will probably like you due to your magic is making them, a decent diplomacy check, or because they are drooling and awaiting your command to smash things. Also look forward to decent discounts on magic items ( I say discounts because charming a person into 10% off may be accepted by your DM, whereas most would outright kill you off for dominating shop owners into giving you things) and free room and bord at the local lords houses cause they thing your just fine and dandy.
Edit: Also look into the feat arcane disciple to see about adding spells from the domination domain onto your spell list. It could lead to some fun.
Yeah I know ECL 24 is crazy. But I am very excited and got pigeonholed a lot by the choices. I am making a wizard type guy, can some one help me with it? I know it will be focused specialist, with some levels of archmage. But what else to throw in? Also, DM is very experienced and strict on "broken things", so I am making a powerful but not broken char.
Thanks a lot!
Chaoz
What epic rules your DM going to apply, he going to use the Epic Level Hanbook Update or the Standard 3.5 Epic Core????
At this level maybe you need a good Hp maybe a template and good support spells like greater celerity,greater teleport, nondetection, mind blank, Moment of Prescience, true seeing, assay spell resistan and others.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
