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hey all. I had a question about certain feats that improve a PCs initiative. such as improved init, quick draw, martial alacrity and so forth. Does the +4 bonus and other +2 bonuses you get from each feat stack or does the greater one only apply (meaning improved inits +4 would cancel out the +2 bonuses from the others). Please need some help on the clarity of this asap cause im building a character under the idea that they all stack.

General bonus stacking rules apply.  If it is a typed bonus, of the form "+X (type) bonus" with a word between the number and 'bonus', then only the highest of the type applies.  Bonuses of different types, and bonuses from untyped things stack with each other.

Note that a bonus from a feat is not necessarily a "feat bonus."  It has to have the word between the number and 'bonus'.

OK not sure what you mean by that? i guess I can explain a bit more my predicement. right now the feats i have are

Improved Initiative - You gain a +4 feat bonus to initiative checks.

Quick Draw - You can draw a weapon (or an object, such as a potion, stored in a belt pouch, a bandolier, or a similar container) as part of the same action used to attack with the weapon or use the object. You also gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative checks.

Battle Hardened - You gain a +5 feat bonus to saving throws against fear effects. In addition, you gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative checks.

Duty's Virtue - Once per round, you can use the aid defense action as a minor action, but only if the chosen ally is bloodied. Also, you gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative checks.

so i've thought that they stack equaling +10 to my intiative checks (not including Dex + 1/2 level)

So am I doing it right or is it only the greatest number that matters. if so then i've got to respec practically all my feats for heroic tier

Bonueses of the same type do not stack. If something says "Feat Bonus", which all of those do, they are all "Feat bonuses" and thus don't stack, only the highest applies. If it just says "+4 bonus to init" then it is untyped, because there is word between the amount and bonus. Similar examples: "+4 Item bonus" "+4 Racial bonus." "+4 Enhancement bonus." etc.

If there is a word between the number and the bonus, it is that type of bonus. Bonuses of the same type never stack. Untyped bonuses stack with everytyhing, except themselves. So if you had a feat that, say, caused you to gain +6 to damage rolls after each attack, it'd only apply once, no matter how many times you hit, because the untyped bonus would be from the same named game element (whatever the feat was called).

Also taking those feats and not the standard taxes is a really bad idea anyway, even if they did stack.

Nov 13, 2012 -- 9:52PM, RedHeadSamurai23 wrote:

OK not sure what you mean by that? i guess I can explain a bit more my predicement. right now the feats i have are

Improved Initiative - You gain a +4 feat bonus to initiative checks.

Quick Draw - You can draw a weapon (or an object, such as a potion, stored in a belt pouch, a bandolier, or a similar container) as part of the same action used to attack with the weapon or use the object. You also gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative checks.

Battle Hardened - You gain a +5 feat bonus to saving throws against fear effects. In addition, you gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative checks.

Duty's Virtue - Once per round, you can use the aid defense action as a minor action, but only if the chosen ally is bloodied. Also, you gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative checks.

so i've thought that they stack equaling +10 to my intiative checks (not including Dex + 1/2 level)

So am I doing it right or is it only the greatest number that matters. if so then i've got to respec practically all my feats for heroic tier

All of those are feat bonuses; they all say '+X feat bonus to initiative checks'.  Therefore, as they have the same descriptor, they do not stack and you only get the highest bonus.

ok all thank you for your input. i've respec'd my pc now, my next question is. wth are feat taxes. i've yet to understand what people mean by that. every feat i've ever taken for a character fits right either for mechanics or fluff.

It's a long story.

After 4e's launch it was discovered that the rate of PC attack and NAD advancement wasn't keeping pace with the rate of monster attack and defense advancement.  The lag on attacks was -1 in heroic, -2 in paragon, and -3 in epic.

Instead of actually fixing the problem by rewriting the already-published Monster Manual, something that is just practically impossible, they patched it over by adding in Expertise feats, which gave a +1/2/3 feat bonus to attack rolls.

People were glad to receive them, but still irritated that they had to spend a feat slot that could be used for something interesting just to correct an error in the Monster Manual, particularly when the raw effective power of the expertise feats was vastly, vastly higher than any other feat in the game.  The term "feat tax" was born.

Recently, "feat tax refunds" have been added.  These are the new model of Expertise feats, where they do their math-fixing thing but also give some other benefit that is an appropriate power level for a feat.  Unfortunately, this makes the feat tax situation worse, since the new feats are now even more overpowered as compared to other feats, and aren't any less required as a result.

They origionaly had mastwork weapons and neck slots.  Then they where cut, but the monster math was never revised.

What Mand12 said.  
This is why every Epic Tier character will always have the following Feats:

• [Weapon/Implement] Expertise
• Robust Defenses
• Epic Will
• Epic Fortitude
• Epic Reflexes

Otherwise, they're sure to get toasted while beboopin' around the Astal Sea or what-not.
Since these Feats are pretty much a "must have, or die", it became a "tax" you had to "pay" in order to advance, as opposed to choosing a Feat that suits your character concept/style.

Improved Defenses is strictly superior to Robust Defenses.  Robust Defenses is an obsolete feat.

As an added advantage, Improved Defenses can be taken at any tier (and probably should).

Nov 20, 2012 -- 8:26PM, Mand12 wrote:

Improved Defenses is strictly superior to Robust Defenses.  Robust Defenses is an obsolete feat.

As an added advantage, Improved Defenses can be taken at any tier (and probably should).

Ah, didn't catch that one.
When stuff like "Forgotten Realms" and "Heroes of Such-as-such" come out, I don't get them, as they seem to be specific to a campagin setting.  But PH1,2,3, DMG1,2,3, I try to pay attention to.

Do they use all books, including campaign settings, to "fix" things (such as adding new Feats or rules that are needed)? 

HotFL and HotFK were not campaign settings; they were the Essentials equivalents of the PHB.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 12:52AM, thespaceinvader wrote:

HotFL and HotFK were not campaign settings; they were the Essentials equivalents of the PHB.

Ah, ok.  It was my understanding (which I admit is limited in this regard) is that Essentials was a sort-of attempt to make a "sort of 4.5e, but not really 4.5e" which ultimately is not compatible with 4e PH.  Is this true, or am I dead wrong?

Not dead wrong, but mostly wrong.  It's completely compatible with the 4e PHB, but the "sort of 4.5e, but not really 4.5e" is somewhat accurate.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 9:27AM, Malph wrote:

Nov 22, 2012 -- 12:52AM, thespaceinvader wrote:

HotFL and HotFK were not campaign settings; they were the Essentials equivalents of the PHB.

Ah, ok.  It was my understanding (which I admit is limited in this regard) is that Essentials was a sort-of attempt to make a "sort of 4.5e, but not really 4.5e" which ultimately is not compatible with 4e PH.  Is this true, or am I dead wrong?

You're dead wrong.  The Heroes Of -- books are 100% compatible with 4e.  They are additional material, not a half-edition in any way.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 1:41PM, Salla wrote:

You're dead wrong.  The Heroes Of -- books are 100% compatible with 4e.  They are additional material, not a half-edition in any way.

Well, I'm not sure I agree with that, a lot of what it added was half-classes.

Which work perfectly well on tables with classes from earlier books, and supply material varying from utility powers to all powers, which are compatible with classes from earlier books.

What more do you want?

Also, Epic NAD feats aren't Feat Taxes in the slightest. They're powerful because they stack, but even an Optimized Defender can usually find better things to spend feats on than taking all 3.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 4:43PM, Mand12 wrote:

Nov 22, 2012 -- 1:41PM, Salla wrote:

You're dead wrong.  The Heroes Of -- books are 100% compatible with 4e.  They are additional material, not a half-edition in any way.

Well, I'm not sure I agree with that, a lot of what it added was half-classes.

I'd change the final "s" to a "d" and drop two other letters.

Same thing?