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Switch to Forum Live View Solving the limitations of battle maps
8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 4:56AM #1
hartlage
Date Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 12

In “Battle maps take over Dungeons & Dragons,” I wrote about how the widespread introduction of battle maps can improve the fun of combat encounters. Everyone knows where everything is. The game never gets bogged down with boring descriptions of layout and dimensions.Nonetheless, as much as the simple map avoids confusion, it suffers two weaknesses where I still search for improvements.


Elevation


Without 3D terrain, battle maps do a poor job of representing elevation, and cannot clearly represent rooms with multiple, overlapping levels, such as balconies.


When I create my own adventures, the limits of the flat map limit the kind of spaces that I imagine. So sometimes I work to break the constraints of the map. For example, I once ran a vertical dungeon, perched on walkways and platforms carved into—and jutting out of—a giant cliff. While this kind of environment can inject some fresh wonder into the game, I’m always annoyed when an encounter forces, say, a balcony into an essentially static combat. If an encounter adds the complexity of multiple levels, I want a dynamic encounter with characters on the move between levels, trading fire and flying around. If you have levels, force the characters to go to them before they clear the room.



I want to find some convenient brackets or holders that raise dungeon tiles over the battlefield as with my improvised balcony in the photo. Ideal holders would be compact enough to fit in my convention bag, but heavy enough to stay put. Do any MacGyvers out there have suggestions?


Lighting and visibility


Someday, I hope we all have touch-sensitive, electronic battle maps that sense and track the presence of a particular miniature in a particular spot, and automatically reveal the parts of the cave that that the players can see. Until then, dealing with lighting and line of sight is a chore that I too often gloss over. Some methods help. You can reveal the map as the players explore, either by lifting coverings, laying new tiles, or just drawing as needed. However, in a big battle, where some combatants lurk in the darkness, the matter of tracking who sees what becomes unwieldy.  When is lighting and visibility worth the trouble of tracking? Does anyone have any tricks for handling lighting and visibility?



Dave
      (You might also like my Secrets to storing and retrieving D&D miniatures)
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8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 6:42AM #2
Shaddylogic
Date Joined: Aug 23, 2012
Posts: 167
My secret to lighting and visibility is to largely ignore it.  However, that advice while helpful if you want to adapt that playstyle is not helpful if you'd like to still care about those things so I will offer some additional alternative advice.

Let the players keep track of it.

This is the easiest way of keeping track of who can see what, but requires some extra trust to the players.  Let them figure out who has the light source what their vision is and based on the light source.  For additional sources of light inform the players up front about the light it provides and likewise make them keep track of it.    


Until there is a battle just use descriptions

You don't need a battle map until their is an actual battle.  In this approach you have a map in front of you and you describe things detailed enough for players to navigate that map.  This usually means that one of the players will have to keep a piece of graph paper so the party can make a map of their own.  Or you can do them a favor and just keep some extra paper and draw approximations of where they have traveled from.  

Don't use a map unless their is a "real" battle.

If the players are encounter a single scout for a group of  then perhaps you don't even need to draw the map, and you can just describe combat.  Granted, this does have some disadvantages but if we make some generous assumptions about positioning and additional rules than it can work out just fine.           

Use blocks or cups to add height when needed, or a seperate map.

Sometimes the easiest way to track elevation is to not actually use an elevated feature, and bring a seperate map.  Unfortunately this does create the issue of having to figure out where they are above the other minatures, however it works well for seperate floors.  For flying in the same room you could use a block to set a minature above the others, but I find it a bit easier to use some small clear plastic cups that way if people want to move under the model they can.


Sorry if my advice seems a little scatter brained, but these are just some of the musings I had off the top.   

       
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8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 10:30AM #3
mvincent
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 8,332

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:56AM, hartlage wrote:

I want to find some convenient brackets or holders that raise dungeon tiles over the battlefield as with my improvised balcony in the photo. Ideal holders would be compact enough to fit in my convention bag, but heavy enough to stay put. Do any MacGyvers out there have suggestions?


- Combat tiers
- Modeling clay
- D&D tiles 3-terrain (Harrowing Halls)
- D&D tiles box (or other boxes: especially if they fold up)
- Terraclips
- Legos (3 pips = 1")
- Halo boardgame pieces
- Solo cups
- Plastic Pizza saver stands: with a bit of clay on top to make them stick to things. Also work as flight stands.

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8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 10:50AM #4
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,970

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:56AM, hartlage wrote:

In “Battle maps take over Dungeons & Dragons,” I wrote about how the widespread introduction of battle maps can improve the fun of combat encounters. Everyone knows where everything is. The game never gets bogged down with boring descriptions of layout and dimensions.Nonetheless, as much as the simple map avoids confusion, it suffers two weaknesses where I still search for improvements.


A mapless game only becomes bogged down in boring descriptions in layout and dimensions if the DM is the sole proprieter of that information. As soon as players' brains are engaged to help provide detail, and their ideas are accepted and added on to, there's never another "wrong" answer to questions about those details - which, more often than not, don't need a great deal of detail anyway.

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:56AM, hartlage wrote:

If an encounter adds the complexity of multiple levels, I want a dynamic encounter with characters on the move between levels, trading fire and flying around. If you have levels, force the characters to go to them before they clear the room.


"Force" them? "Clear the room"?

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:56AM, hartlage wrote:

Someday, I hope we all have touch-sensitive, electronic battle maps that sense and track the presence of a particular miniature in a particular spot, and automatically reveal the parts of the cave that that the players can see. Until then, dealing with lighting and line of sight is a chore that I too often gloss over.


Do you find the gameplay suffers significantly from glossing these things over? I gloss them over constantly and don't notice any downsides, but the speed and ease of this approach would greatly overshadow most downsides I could imagine.

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:56AM, hartlage wrote:

When is lighting and visibility worth the trouble of tracking?


Never. If something is difficulty to see, allow the players to know where they are and represent the advantages of darkness mechanically.

I've tried various methods of representing light sources and elevation and they're simply not worth it in the long run. I'm not one for completely gridless combat, in most cases, but the way forward is toward less physical mapping, rather than more.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 2:00PM #5
mvincent
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 8,332

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:56AM, hartlage wrote:

When is lighting and visibility worth the trouble of tracking?


Tracking lighting is almost never worth it. Just assume that the players have plenty of Everburning torches.

Tracking visibility and Line of Sight on the other hand should become second nature, as it matters for targeting purposes. Rogues that routinely want to hide (which is not easy) need to know how to do this. Some DM tips:
1) Improved cover almost never occurs
2) If it looks like a creature has partial cover, then they likely do.
3) Full cover should be pretty obvious. When in doubt, draw the lines.
4) Lurker type creatures often start combat hidden (so don't place them on the map), but they will have a difficult time rehiding (without some special ability, like invisibility), so best to leave them on the map once they appear.

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8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 6:01PM #6
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,557
Elevation is easy; put a die next to the character token with the number showing as the number of squares above map level the character is.  For stuff like balconies or elevated platforms, just write on the map how high they are (perhaps make them a different color to draw attention to the fact).

And I agree with mvincent.  Tracking lighting is just a pain in the butt and not worth the effort.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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8 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 10:54PM #7
WhisperMagellan
Date Joined: Jun 8, 2010
Posts: 2,777
There is a wonderful set of clear standies that represent invisible minis, and it comes with stands for flying monsters that grip the std 1" bases, and makes it possible to stand another mini underneath or (more often) the die indicating height.

Need stands for you maps? May I suggest Foam-core board. Cut the stands you need from the side, maybe hot-glue into a T shape so that it stands better, and they can store pretty flat in your bag. And, the larger piece of foam-core can be used as small map pieces. Just draw in the lines (I suggest a T-Square from any good art or office supply shop--any where you can still buy drafting materials).
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8 months ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 9:54AM #8
mvincent
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 8,332

Nov 12, 2012 -- 10:54PM, WhisperMagellan wrote:

comes with stands for flying monsters that grip the std 1" bases, and makes it possible to stand another mini underneath


Link?

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8 months ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 11:35AM #9
WhisperMagellan
Date Joined: Jun 8, 2010
Posts: 2,777
Sorry, I'm not the one that bought them. I'll try to find out.
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8 months ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 12:50PM #10
mvincent
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 8,332

Nov 13, 2012 -- 11:35AM, WhisperMagellan wrote:

Sorry, I'm not the one that bought them. I'll try to find out.


Ah. I believe you are likely refering to:
Gamemastery Flight stands &
Gamemastery invisible character pack
They are two separate products, but same manufacturer (Litko). GF9 also makes invisible miniatures and many manufacturers (including Litko) make other flight stands, but I hadn't realized that this version had a spot for a miniature underneath. Thanks!

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