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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 4:32AM #21
draco1119
  • California Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,902
Sorry for the double post, but it's difficult to edit from an iPhone:

As far as I know, credit has to go to Maat Mons for discovering that trick.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 4:36AM #22
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,633

Nov 14, 2012 -- 10:24PM, draco1119 wrote:

You want to be immune? Fine: Warforged Pugilist with Shake it Off class ability, Improved Resiliency feat, and Warforged Juggernaut PrC.


I, personally, prefer Troll-Blooded Bone Knight, but that's just me. Less immunity in an AMF(Unless you're pulling out Initiate of Mystra), but so much more raw power.

Also, I'm surprised nobody's posted the gold standard Ikea Tarrasque yet.

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 5:16AM #23
Andarious-Rosethorn
Date Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 419
Spark of Life anyone? I'd look out for using Undead Templates to gain immunity to non-lethal. And while I love a good CO excercise I tend to not enjoy the ones that revolve around creating something nobody would use, or want to see used. Although sometimes you find a gem while making these things.

That said I think undead's one of the weakest ways to become immune to ability damage and non-lethal damage. You are still vulerable to several things including BoED's afflictions (which will ruin the day of most undead). Also, turning outright destroys the undead in question, as can Disintigrate (which will work on construct based variants as well).
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 9:15AM #24
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88

Nov 15, 2012 -- 4:30AM, draco1119 wrote:

Nope; Shake it off changes all damage to non-lethal. Improved Resiliency makes you immune to non-lethal damage. And that's at level 1. Level 3 if you want to go Warforged Juggernaut, since that requires a 1st-level only feat.




Warforged Juggernaut already is immune to non-lethal damage, so i personally would go with Improved Resiliency and would drop Pugilist since i didn't like this Fighter variant.

Nov 15, 2012 -- 4:36AM, Cyclone_Joker wrote:

Nov 14, 2012 -- 10:24PM, draco1119 wrote:

You want to be immune? Fine: Warforged Pugilist with Shake it Off class ability, Improved Resiliency feat, and Warforged Juggernaut PrC.


I, personally, prefer Troll-Blooded Bone Knight, but that's just me. Less immunity in an AMF(Unless you're pulling out Initiate of Mystra), but so much more raw power.

Also, I'm surprised nobody's posted the gold standard Ikea Tarrasque yet.




WTF what a monster. In the end of that post JeminiZero points that Ikea Tarrasque is not immune against certain things, then there i go with 10 levels of Entropomancer to get immune against Sphere of Annihillation, 10 levels of Master of Many Forms to get immune against any Transmutation effects (it includes Petrification), and some template to get Death Effect immunity. Against the other things i don't think there's a way to get immune, like the Pyroclastic Dragon Breath.

Nov 15, 2012 -- 5:16AM, Andarious-Rosethorn wrote:

Spark of Life anyone? I'd look out for using Undead Templates to gain immunity to non-lethal. And while I love a good CO excercise I tend to not enjoy the ones that revolve around creating something nobody would use, or want to see used. Although sometimes you find a gem while making these things.

That said I think undead's one of the weakest ways to become immune to ability damage and non-lethal damage. You are still vulerable to several things including BoED's afflictions (which will ruin the day of most undead). Also, turning outright destroys the undead in question, as can Disintigrate (which will work on construct based variants as well).




But you don't need to be Undead,  you only will get its immunities, so you'll not be vulnerable to Turning. And Disintegrate deals damage that is turned into non-lethal and then the creature has immunity against it, even if it's not the case, a Master of Many Forms is immune against any Transmutation effects, and Disintegrate is a Transmutation spell.

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 9:32AM #25
RadicalTaoist
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 2,531
I'm a huge fan of getting the best bang for your CR buck, and have a weakness for under-CRed template combinations. Phrenic lycanthropes are a personal favourite of mine (if you have the MM3, use a Blackscale Lizardfolk as your base humanoid and a battletitan dinosaur as your base animal).
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 10:10AM #26
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
Lycanthrope can only be applied to Humanoids or Giants, and Blackscale Lizardfolk is Monstrous Humanoid, but using Battletitan Dinosaur as your Base Animal was an awesome idea man!
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 12:36PM #27
RadicalTaoist
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 2,531
I thought Monstrous Humanoids counted as Humanoids for the purpsoses of prereqs and templates. There's other Large humanoids or giants that'll do the job, surely (need to be within one size category of the Huge Battletitan).
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 12:57PM #28
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,786

Nov 15, 2012 -- 12:36PM, RadicalTaoist wrote:

I thought Monstrous Humanoids counted as Humanoids for the purpsoses of prereqs and templates. There's other Large humanoids or giants that'll do the job, surely (need to be within one size category of the Huge Battletitan).



I don't recall reading any general rule for this (lest you bust out the Tauric Centaur - twice as much horse as the human body can hold, and he's only half-human!). There's a few feats that do similar things, but those always seem to work with subtypes (i.e. you might end up being an Outsider (Human)), rather than types themselves.

For everyone else, yes, RT really does love undercosted CR effects. Most of what we've fought in Dead for Nothing, monster-wise, is from the deliberately under-CR Monster Manual 3, and several of them have been advanced or templated in other ways. He refers to it as "D&D on Legendary" and it shows. (Although not insurmountable - our team has been able to handle everything he's thrown at us so far.)

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Weekly Optimization Series: Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows:
[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 2:28PM #29
Vincent_Dranoch
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Posts: 88
I had posted a brief of the Middle-Age Choker Fighter 1/Sorcerer 6/Cleric 1/Swift Blade 9, and now i think about a Temporal Drake Swift Blade!

Despite the Choker has one more standart action per round, the Drake can uses its movement actions as free actions, what means it may be more tactical, and it has better Initiative checks and a lot of useful abilities. While the Choker has around CR 15, this new Swift Blade Monster has around CR 23 which is kind high, so i don't know if it's worth.

Any thoughts?
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 2:59PM #30
Cyclone_Joker
Date Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 3,633

Nov 15, 2012 -- 9:32AM, RadicalTaoist wrote:

I'm a huge fan of getting the best bang for your CR buck, and have a weakness for under-CRed template combinations. Phrenic lycanthropes are a personal favourite of mine (if you have the MM3, use a Blackscale Lizardfolk as your base humanoid and a battletitan dinosaur as your base animal).


This does not work. Blackscale Lizardfolk are Medium. Battletitans are Huge. Therefore, Blackscale Lizardfolk is inelligable.

And nothing, NOTHING beats the under-CRed monstrousity that is the Adamantine Horror.

I am ORCutus of Borg, 3 of 6. Resistance... is futile. Your life as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us.

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