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7 months ago  ::  Nov 11, 2012 - 8:03PM #1
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134
The characters
Cleric of Heimdale (Protector)/Investigative Specialist/Bounty Hunter - Basically a witchhunter
Rogue (Theif)/Ambusher/Spy - The team's go to sniper
Fighter (Slayer)/Endurance/Artisan (Blacksmith) - Dwarven frontline fighter
Fighter (Veteran)/Endurance/Soldier - Dwarven front line fighter
Rogue (Theif)/Skill Specialist/Guide - The groups' scout
Wizard (Battle Magic)/Arcane Specialist/Sage - Magical artillery

The Adventure - The Temple of Elemental Evil

With a "get your feet wet" encounter of the party's caravan being ambushed by Goblins we discovered that Stealth is awesome, though not for the PCs on this encounter.  The wizard took a critical right off the bat, dropping him.  Everyone else grabbed dirt or a hiding space under the wagon and tried in vain to pinpoint where the archers were.  Finally the Veteran decided to hold his action until he saw someone pop up to take a shot.  Once the goblins were located they were quickly dispatched BUT the Stealth rules worked very well for laying an ambush and peppering the PCs with arrows.

They arrived at the village of Hommlet and got in some good RP time as they took in the town before finding out about the ruined Moathouse and deciding that it may be worth their time to go take a look.

At the moathouse they encountered several bandits and a variety of "giant" animals (frogs, spiders, snakes).  The fights were brutal but fairly quick.  The sniper took to a cover position on the ruined upper levels and moved point to point losing a deadly volley of arrows in support of the others.  The cleric kept people on their feet with Cure Minor as needed.  It was discovered that criticals at 1st level can be deadly.  Both rogues made good use of their Skill Mastery and Sneak Attacks, especially the sniper.

In the end, we played for about 3 hours which included a sizable chunk of RP in the village and about 7 different encounters.  There's no way would could have done that number in 4E.  The combats were dangerous but not outright deadly.  The two fighters are both AC 17, which means most things need a 15+ to hit them which forced me to be more creative with the enemies so as to get Advantage, which made the players work harder to get the enemies at a Disadvantage.  The fights seemed more dynamic as a result, with more movement, more searching for an edge and more description than previous iterations.  The wizard proved to be very effective with his damage spells, the at-wills makes a big difference and the ability to ensure party members don't take damage is really nice.

Converting the monsters from the old 2nd Edition to DND Next was pretty easy.  Damage scales the same (at least at low levels), anything not in the Bestiary I simply gave a +1/2HD attack bonus (with maybe another +1 if the main attack was meant to be really dangerous).  I subtracted the AC listed from 20 to get a new, non-THACO AC and it was off to the races.  The pacing was spot on and there was no 5 minute work day.  They hit all the encounters at a good clip.  The only real downside was when they got surprise on the main bandit group and everyone hit the Commander dropping him before he could draw his weapon.  Less a flaw with the system though and more a result of the party making a definite plan and sticking with it.

We had some minor questions about spells slots - if the Cleric has Cure Minor, Resistance and Detect Magic prepared he can cast the first two without using a slot.  Easy enough.  If he uses all three slots to cast Detect Magic though, does that mean he can't cast the "at-wills" any longer since the 3 0 level slots have been used?  We decided that yes, he's spent but clarification would be good.

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 12:22AM #2
Aehrlon68
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 177
good report; good insight.  Last paragraph on the Cleric spell question; I believe you played it correctly.  Unless you have the "Lifegiver" Deity, you lose a spell slot afer you use it.  The Lifegiver gets the following on LV0 Spells, "At-­‐Will Spells: While you have the cure minor wounds or the resistance spell prepared, you can cast it without expending a spell slot."  So by keeping one slot open and unused, a Lifegiver Cleric could use either of those two spells an unlimited amount of times.  Hope this helps.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 3:51AM #3
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134

Nov 12, 2012 -- 12:22AM, Aehrlon68 wrote:

good report; good insight.  Last paragraph on the Cleric spell question; I believe you played it correctly.  Unless you have the "Lifegiver" Deity, you lose a spell slot afer you use it.  The Lifegiver gets the following on LV0 Spells, "At-­‐Will Spells: While you have the cure minor wounds or the resistance spell prepared, you can cast it without expending a spell slot."  So by keeping one slot open and unused, a Lifegiver Cleric could use either of those two spells an unlimited amount of times.  Hope this helps.




The Protector gets those two spells for free as well  I thought that's how it was meant to be though, so basically its 2 0 level spells and then unlimited "at-will" spells

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 4:54AM #4
ShadeRaven
Date Joined: Jul 15, 2008
Posts: 1,417
Good stuff.   ToEE certainly brings back memories.

Pacing is pretty awesome with Next, I agree.  Very few of the mechanics are clumsy and unweildy, though I don't personally like the reduction in spells-per-day progression or the 10-minute recharge on signature spells, but maybe that's just a lack of experience with them.  It could grow on me.

As written, all you need is to prepare the At-Will Spells to have them unlimited.

Example: Protector - While you have the cure minor wounds or the resistance spell prepared, you can cast it without expending a spell slot.

In other words, a 1st level Cleric gets three 0-level spells to prepare each day.  If any of those slots are used on cure minor wounds or resistance, those spells become at-will, usable throughout the day without restriction.  Any spells chosen beyond that are under the normal restrictions.  Even if you use that other spell (or spells) until the 0-level spell slots are exhausted, the domain at-wills are still available because they are still prepared and active.  You can't, however, select 3 non-deity 0-level spells as prepared spells and still cast your at-will spells freely.  Those spells must use a prepared slot to be available.


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7 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 5:42AM #5
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134

Nov 12, 2012 -- 4:54AM, ShadeRaven wrote:

Good stuff.   ToEE certainly brings back memories.

Pacing is pretty awesome with Next, I agree.  Very few of the mechanics are clumsy and unweildy, though I don't personally like the reduction in spells-per-day progression or the 10-minute recharge on signature spells, but maybe that's just a lack of experience with them.  It could grow on me.

As written, all you need is to prepare the At-Will Spells to have them unlimited.

Example: Protector - While you have the cure minor wounds or the resistance spell prepared, you can cast it without expending a spell slot.

In other words, a 1st level Cleric gets three 0-level spells to prepare each day.  If any of those slots are used on cure minor wounds or resistance, those spells become at-will, usable throughout the day without restriction.  Any spells chosen beyond that are under the normal restrictions.  Even if you use that other spell (or spells) until the 0-level spell slots are exhausted, the domain at-wills are still available because they are still prepared and active.  You can't, however, select 3 non-deity 0-level spells as prepared spells and still cast your at-will spells freely.  Those spells must use a prepared slot to be available.





The best example I can think of to describe the pacing is "break neck".  Its hectic but not confusing.  I think the reduction in monster hit points has a lot to do with it.  Combats don't drag out.  Even with an ambush with 10 Goblins and 6 PCs then fight didn't take more than 15 minutes to play out and parts of that were trying to locate the little buggers.

We haven't had an issue with Spells per day yet, but that could be because at 1st level the Battle Wizard's Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp and Ray of Frost (he's an Elf) backed up by Thunder Wave are pretty good.  He's not had to actually cast his main spell for the day.

Our exact example with the Cleric's spells is - Prepared Cure Minor, Resisitance and Detect Magic.  The question is, once he casts 3 Detect Magic, all his 0 level slots are used so he can't cast either of his Domain Spells BUT if he only casts Detect Magic twice, then he can cast the two Domain spells every round all day long?

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 5:56AM #6
Rhenny
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2011
Posts: 1,546
Great report.  It is nice to see a larger group work so everybody feels like they contribute, and you don't have to throw mobs of monsters at them to make it feel dangerous.  It is also nice that even in a larger group play remains quick. 

Keep playtesting and reporting!     
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 7:35PM #7
YouKnowTheOneGuy
Date Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Posts: 772
Good feedback! I like it when a party's tactics (like taking down the commander) pays off.
I'd say if the cleric casts detect magic twice then the second use burns off one of the prepared at wills (unless cleric casting is no longer like 3.x sorcerers?). I agree with your group's interpretation.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning."
-Mike Mearls
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 9:53AM #8
fougerec
Date Joined: May 24, 2012
Posts: 134

Nov 12, 2012 -- 7:35PM, YouKnowTheOneGuy wrote:

Good feedback! I like it when a party's tactics (like taking down the commander) pays off. I'd say if the cleric casts detect magic twice then the second use burns off one of the prepared at wills (unless cleric casting is no longer like 3.x sorcerers?). I agree with your group's interpretation.




The best tactic they came up with...they came across a locked shed.  Obviously locked means loot, even though there was a big red X painted on the door.

So they listened and they peaked through a knot hole (Skill Mastery on the Listen FTW) and heard something moving and saw something scaly.  Like a large, large snake (no real surprise...the top level of the Moat House in TOEE is nothing but giant critters).  So big snake but maybe loot...what to do.

So the Bounty Hunter  (Cleric) made a Rope Use to secure a rope around the door handle (securely...very securely).  One of the dwarves got ready to shove the door closed and the Battle Mage (Wizard), Sniper (Rogue), Guide (Rogue) and Slayer (Fighter) got ready to hit it at range.  They (rightly) figured that a big, big snake meant bad, bad poison.  They had Disadvantage on the attack, on top of partial concealment.  The plan was to synch up their initiatives so the Cleric would pull the door, everyone would fire in blindly and then the dwarf would shut the door.  Only the Sniper made sure to set himself up so he had Advantage (to cancel out the Disadvantage).

They tried it three times, but had no idea if they were successful or not (I didn't let them know the effects of their attacks since they couldn't see), but on the forth pull the snake sprang forth (Readied action, figured even with animal intelligence it could make that decision eventually) before they could fire.  A few of their attacks had hit home previously though and the Slayer and Veteran made short work of it before it proved any real threat.

As they described their tactical approach, made their skill checks (Listen, Spot, Use Rope and a Strength Save for the Veteran on the door) and it was just plain old fashioned fun and that's something (so far) DND Next has for our group.  I don't care about the balance, or the damage output of the Rogue or the effects of Deadly Attack or the limit on spells/day.  The game is fun for us to play and when we get together, that's what we care about more than anything.

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