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6 months ago  ::  Dec 08, 2012 - 10:49PM #31
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,099
Alright, here's my feedback.

First, on making katana a weapon.  Don't do it.  You've stated that you want something like the masterwork weapons from 3e.  Just do that.  Completely separate from your homebrew samurai class, just bring back the Masterwork Weapons rule from 3.5.  It's a very simple rule, pay 300 extra gold for +1 to hit, but not to damage.  I'd lower that to maybe 100-200 for 4e, because a level 1 magic weapon is already 320, but even that much is optional.  Bring back the Masterwork Weapons rule, then say that Katana and Wakizashi can only ever be masterwork.  

Second, on the honor/dishonor mechanics.  Like the others, I too don't like roleplaying mechanics like this.  It's just that it so drastically undermines the roleplaying.  It's like if you paid someone to hang out with you.  If they were really your friend, they'd do it for free.  By the same token, players who want to roleplay being Lawful Good will generally do it anyway, and those who don't will do just enough to skate by.  However, you've stated that the honor stuff is in, so I'll give my feedback to try and make it as good as we can.

First, mother of god, you do not need 45 creeds.  Not only is this a lot of creeds to keep track of, a lot of them seem so boring.  They're less like important ideals, and more like japan-flavored character quirks.  And they're all over the map for the strength of the bonuses.  Keep the bonuses about equal.  If someone picks a harder creed, that's on them.  Overall, though, I'd cut the many-creeds thing.  Consider dropping it down to the seven core tenets of Bushido, and ask each samurai to pick one tenet that they want to exemplify above the others(but make them follow all seven).

 The other problem with your honor mechanic is that it is, like so many previous D&D roleplay mechanics, a Binary Punishment mechanic.  

First, the Binary part.  Under your system, you're always either Honorable or Dishonorable.  There's no grey area, no middle ground, no shades of honor.  You're entirely fine, right up until it's seppuku time.  This is bad because it devalues the idea of small changes in honor.  Let's say someone had your "Must hold tea ceremonies" creed.  Now, they're an adventurer, they do adventures, so at some point they end up out of civilized society for long enough to miss their ceremony.  They get a little dishonor.  But it doesn't matter.  Even if the player is roleplaying it, they can afford to take this hit.

Second, the Punishment bit.  Under your system, a 1st level character, who is presumably untested in real tough situations, is already as honorable as he'll ever be.  There's nowhere to go but down, and the line is drawn between staying on par and sucking.  This is great if you want people to just do the bare minimum of honor stuff to avoid losing most of their class, but if we want people to roleplay, we can do better than that.  Don't make it a punishment mechanic.  Make it a reward mechanic.  Give your samurai something to aspire to.  And don't just make it one "level", make it scale, so that after reaching one thing, there's another to reach for.

I'd consider something like this:  Each samurai is bound to follow the seven tenets of Bushido.  Whenever a samurai goes above and beyond the call of duty, and truly exemplifies one of the seven tenets, he gains a point of honor.  Should the samurai shirk his duty, or shame himself, he may lose a point of honor.  When dealing with daimyo, other samurai, or any person who is part of his feudal society or might be impressed by his reputation, the samurai gains +X on all social rolls, where X equals his Honor.  

In addition, you could put on some extra benefits at certain levels.  Like maybe at level 3, the samurai is a welcomed guest at the Imperial Court.  At level 5, perhaps he is an Honored Guest.  At level 7, perhaps rookie samurai seek the PC out and ask him to train them.  Use your imagination.  Come up with reasons why being honorable is awesome, instead of why being dishonorable sucks.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 4:53PM #32
NickTyrong
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2012
Posts: 59
Just a +1 to attack, huh? On top of what the weapon already does? That might actualy work fine. I won't object to that.


For the honour, just last night we redid some of the scores. 45 was because i just kept going, and as for it being all over the place, sure they are, but that's mainly for variety. But I'd like to keep the pick five thing, as it replaces different builds, since, well, this doesnt have them, outside using bow, one sword, two swords or unarmed. And yeah, none of you have noticed that stuff because the moves are impossible to read there. Again, sorry about those. But they basically go 1 move for single sword, 1 for 2 sword, 1 for bow, and 1 for unarmed.

For the honour, Ill discuss a reward to him. Thing is, with the roleplaying, you'd get some other possible bonuses. You know, normal roleplaying stuff, depending on how honourable you are. Hard to explain, but I hope you get what I mean. But I'll talk to him about it. We hadn't actually considered that, outside of the basic "you keep your class stuff". Well, we KINDA did, because with how we play you'd get more respect and such, maybe higher rewards, etc, as in it would actually be roleplayed as having higher honour. Hell, roleplay wise you wouldn'ts tart out as honourable as you can, you just start mechanically at max. You can always improve your relations, etc. But a basic mechanic behind it, I'll mention. Thanks.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:39PM #33
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,099

Dec 9, 2012 -- 4:53PM, NickTyrong wrote:

Just a +1 to attack, huh? On top of what the weapon already does? That might actualy work fine. I won't object to that.



Yeah, I know, right?  It's a really simple rule, easy to bring back. 

For the honour, just last night we redid some of the scores. 45 was because i just kept going, and as for it being all over the place, sure they are, but that's mainly for variety. But I'd like to keep the pick five thing, as it replaces different builds, since, well, this doesnt have them, outside using bow, one sword, two swords or unarmed.


If you want the player to pick builds, go for something with the different weapon styles.  You've already got the seeds of four builds with that alone.  You don't need the creeds if you do that.  As builds, the creeds just feel weak.  They don't provide much in the way of roleplay variation or mechanical variation.  For the player to have creeds is fine, but they aren't a good tool for the goal you seem to be trying to use them for.

And yeah, none of you have noticed that stuff because the moves are impossible to read there. Again, sorry about those. But they basically go 1 move for single sword, 1 for 2 sword, 1 for bow, and 1 for unarmed.


Sorry.  I've tried to read the moves more than once, but that formatting really makes it hell.  From what I've seen, you should have some moves that don't demand any of the four styles, because right now, you've got four moves for four styles.  At least give someone who sticks to their style a choice of moves to use while doing it.  Additionally, all of the at-wills are horribly underpowered.  The bow at-will is literally a ranged basic attack, except worse because it requires a bow.

For the honour, Ill discuss a reward to him. Thing is, with the roleplaying, you'd get some other possible bonuses. You know, normal roleplaying stuff, depending on how honourable you are. Hard to explain, but I hope you get what I mean. But I'll talk to him about it. We hadn't actually considered that, outside of the basic "you keep your class stuff". Well, we KINDA did, because with how we play you'd get more respect and such, maybe higher rewards, etc, as in it would actually be roleplayed as having higher honour. Hell, roleplay wise you wouldn'ts tart out as honourable as you can, you just start mechanically at max. You can always improve your relations, etc. But a basic mechanic behind it, I'll mention. Thanks.



I do get what you mean.  Handling all the roleplay stuff via roleplay and not mechanics, like you're doing for his rewards now, is what everyone has tried to suggest that you do for the whole thing.  I think that's much better, overall, that it makes for more rich and rewarding roleplaying than having mechanics for it does.  But, you wanted roleplaying mechanics, so I tried to help make them work.

Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 6:51AM #34
NickTyrong
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2012
Posts: 59
The level 1 encounters are (we came up with them after) all essentially powering shouts, based on the Kiai from 3e's samurai. Well, "shouts". Theyre kindacloser to utilities, albiet focoused more on combat. So essentially they're, at level 1, not weapon specific. Only have level 1, and 2 level 5 attacks right now, so over time there will be mroe neutral ones.

And I'll mention the at wills. They seemed fine to me, but I wouldn't object to making them more powerful. I was just afraid of overpowering them.
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6 months ago  ::  Dec 15, 2012 - 10:17PM #35
Chameleon-X
Date Joined: Apr 11, 2009
Posts: 455

Here's my suggested revisions.


Samurai


Role: Striker
Source: Martial and Psionic
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom
Armor Prof. Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon: Simple melee, simple ranged, military heavy blades, military polearms,  swordsword, bastard sword, shortbow, longbow
 Bonus to Def. +1 Fort, + 1 Will
HP at 1st lvl: 12 + Con
HP/level: 6
Surges: 7 + Con 
 Trained Skills: Athletics, choose three more trained skills at level 1.
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Diplomacy, Endurance, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Religion, Perception, Streetwise, Stealth. 

 Samurai's Blade: Your Samurai creed is embodied by your weapons; pristine items of the highest quality and worksmanship, you treat them with the upmost respect and care, for their strength is the difference between your life and death. Choose up to two weapons (including unarmed strikes) with which you are proficient. Most Samurai choose a pair of swords (a "Daishou"), one longer than the other, but Samurai of different regions often have very different fighting styles.
     Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with the chosen weapons, and each weapon is treated as if it had the High Crit property. In addition, you may use Dexterity instead of Strength for  the attack rolls and damage rolls of basic attacks you make with the chosen weapon.

 Unmatched Reflexes: You gain the Quick Draw feat as a bonus feat. When you draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to make a basic attack, you have combat advantage for that attack. In addition, you gain the Unseen Counterstrike power.

Unseen Counterstrike 
Blah blah Iajutsu
 
At-Will (special), Martial 
Minor Action Close Burst 
5/10/15 (per tier)
Target: One creature
Effect: You choose an enemy within the burst and study its movements carefully, giving it a -2 penalty to attack rolls against you. In addition, if the target makes an attack against you before the end of your next turn you may shift 1 square and make a basic attack against the target as an immediate interrupt. Your basic attack deals additional damage according to your level.
Level 1-10: +1[W]  extra damage.
Level 11-20: +2[W] extra damage.
Level 21-30: +3[W] extra damage.
Special: You may use this power only once per round.  

 Honor's Reward
 
As a Samurai you are sworn to live by a strict code of respect and discipline, and your honor is an integral part of who you are; when you live in honor, you find peace and tranquility in battle, while each stain against your name causes you stress and distracts your thoughts when you need to focus. 
     Your Samurai must live by a code of honor, to be agreed upon by you and your DM. As long as you live up to your code you suffer no penalties, nor do you gain any particular benefits. However, when you go above and beyond to live by your creed, or you commit an act which goes against your honor, then you gain or lose one point of honor. Honor points are cumulative, and are permanent unless lost by a dishonorable action. Depending on how many honor points you have, you gain certain benefits because of your confidence and reputation for excellence.

Honor Points === Benefit
1-2 = You gain a +2 bonus to diplomacy checks, intimdiate checks, and streetwise checks when dealing with people who have heard of and respect your reputation.
3-4 = You gain a + 2 bonus to Initiative, and the above bonus increases to +5.
5-6 = You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls, and a +2 bonus to damage rolls.
7-8= You gain a +1 bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will
9-10: You gain a +1 bonus to AC
10+ = All of the previous bonuses are doubled. 

Dishonor: When your honor point total drops below zero, you gain a penalty corresponding to the benefit of your honor point total's opposite integer (e.g. at -5 honor points you gain a -1 penalty to attack rolls and a -2 penalty to damage rolls). 

Absolution or Vilification: At your DM's discretion, your honor point total may fluctuate very rapidly depending on the magnitude of your actions. For example, even if you have 100 honor points, burning down an orphanage and murdering any child that crawls out is probably going to totally drop your honor into the negatives. Conversely, even a notorious villain or pariah can occasionally perform a heroic deed which changes everyone's opinion of them. If you are unhappy with your current honor rank, consult your DM for possible ways to raise (or lower) your rank through questing or performing some other penance for your misdeeds. 

Bushido Style
Choose one of the following options.

Focused Blade: While you are wielding a one-handed weapon and have your other hand free, you do not grant combat advantage from being flanked as long as you are able to make opportunity attacks. In addition, you gain a bonus to saving throws against Fear, Charm, and Illusion attacks. The bonus is equal to your Wisdom modifier. 

Blademaster: While you are wielding a weapon in two hands, you gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your Wisdom or Constitution modifier. In addition, you gain an Expertise Feat of your choice as a bonus feat.

Divine Wind: While you are wielding two weapons, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex. In addition, when you miss with a melee basic attack while wielding two weapons, you may deal damage equal to your Constitution modifier to one creature adjacent to you. The damage increases to 5 + your Constitution modifier at 11th level, and 10 + your Constitution modifier at 21st level. 

Crushing Force: You gain a +3 proficiency bonus with unarmed attacks, and your unarmed strike deals 1d8 damage. In addition, when you hit a target with a melee attack you may make a grab attempt as a minor action, with a +4 bonus to the attack roll. The bonus increases to +6 at 11th level, and +8 at 21st level. 

Rider on the Storm: You gain the Bow Expertise and Mounted Combat Feats as bonus feats. In addition, when you make a ranged basic attack or charge attack you may add your Wisdom modifier to the damage roll. If you are mounted, the bonus increased by 2/4/6 (per tier).

 

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